average wage of welders in structural steel job shops

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 12-19-2007 22:14

It really depends on the area and need for the welders. My company pay $ 22 hr.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-20-2007 01:27

When you say certified what do you mean?
Do you mean qualified?
D1.1 ASME Section IX?
Is this bridge work, pre-fabricated steel building components, heavy structure, manufactured components, piping, AST's
Are you looking local, state wide, regional
Union or non-union
Example:
I am a supervisor in a large steel company in rual cnetral Missouri. I am doing research on wages. I would like to have some input from others about what the average wage for a non-union SMAW/GMAW welder. The work is manufacturing pre-fabricated steel building components sent to erectors in the mid west. The welders are qualified to AWS-D1.1. Our company offers a complete benefit package of health, life and disability insurance and a 401-k with a 5% dollar for dollar safe harbor match. Our rates are Entry Level Helper $9.00, Helper $11.00 welder I $13, Welder II $15.00 and Welder III $17.50 All rates are based on welder qualifications and yearly evaluations. Are there othere steel suppliers in the state or region who does similar work and would be willing to share wage information?
RMitchell
This would tell others where you are and what you do.
Just a suggestion

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-20-2007 13:19

i am a supervisor in a large steel company in Missouri and am doing research on wages. I would like to have some input from others about what the average wage for certified and non certified but equally qualified welders is across the area.

we are the maintance division of a very large scrap company. the daily requirements of the employees is to weld on or fabricate crane booms,all types of heavy equipment from cranes to loaders to dozers car crusher and aljon bailers ect. we fabricate our own conveyors and other material handling equipment the duties also include those of millwrwght workers,pipe fitters.we have high pressure hydraulic and all types of structural steel. we have several shreadder mills in the recycling industry that we maintain as well.These materials may exceed as much as 3"-4" thicknesses.we also maintain a trucking fleet of all structural needs from frames to axels and walls.we are non union and the types of welding are SMAW D1.1 and GMAW D1.1 both in all position unlimited. some of the guys work in a shop and some are in the outdoors of the facility. we pay wages of $14.00-$16.00 per hour and i believe they should be making more although i need to have comparisons to put on the table.

RMitchell

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-21-2007 14:03 Edited 12-21-2007 16:11

Well Mr. Mitchell,

There really is no doubt your low is there?

The real proof will be that you can't hold onto welders. You bring folks in, over time they gain some skills, realize they are worth more than you pay... Soon it becomes rediculous and their need to be paid a wage reflecting all the skills you mentioned outweighs any loyalty to you for the training. and ::::::::::Poof.. they go. All the polling in the world will not change reality.

Welders that are paid decently and equpped with the right tools are generally happy on the job.. What is the atmosphere in your work areas?

I teach at a tech college in Southern Wisconsin and the wages you mention for your top welder.. 14-16 per hour is about what an entry level welder with a fresh diploma but no real job experience might expect to be paid in any of the many many fabrication shops or manufacturing outfits that are desperate for welders in our region.

The outfits that employ welders who do heavy steel, fit pipe, fabricate unsupervised etc. cannot hold onto good welders unless they are at least $20 per hour. A litlle further upstate (Milwaukee) and top welders are going for 25+.... Some employers are even offering signing bonuses up to 10K for welders who can pass their tests.

There are manufacturers..... High production GMAW... Who try to get by paying less.. But they are the ones with the adds in the paper all the time because low wages make for a revolving door.

An experienced craftsman (Certified or not Certified) in the Mid West ought to be able to carry a mortgage in the town he works in... That isn't happening with 14-16 bucks an hour.

As far as certification goes... That is your burdan, expense and responsibility as the employer to bear.. If your lookin at applicants with some certs stapled to there resume and you hire them and refer to them as "your certified welders" you are greatly mistaken.

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-21-2007 23:07

Look at your turn over. If you are loosing over 5% of your top producing people, it is either a $$ problem or a management problem. You should know the wages of your compeditors in a commuting distance. Out here it is 100 miles. Our top welders are paid at the top of the range for our competition. We lost 1 welder out of 25 last year and he tried to get hired back before Thanksgiving. If your wages meet the local range and you are loosing people for 1-2$, you have a management problem. Especally if the people are good workers with experience. THere has to be a management issue for someone with 5 plus years dragging up over $2080.

Depending on your competition and benefits, I think you should be in the $19-21 range. And in heavy construction, your wages/benefits should be no more than 40-45% of your gross. If your w/b are 25-35% you have room to move wages up without affecting the bottom line too much. If you are 50-55% then you have no room.
If you have a HR department who is really interested in being HR instead of being the typical HR WANK, they should be able to come up with some comparable wages. If it falls on you, a few weekends in a bar or 2 close to your competition and buying a couple of rounds will tell you more about the competion than their management wants you to know.

I have 4 compeditors in my area and I can tell you exactly what they pay, their benefits and how their management treats them. And their bosses know where we are too. This is the heavy plate steel erection industry.
BABRT's

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 12-22-2007 03:24

R Mitchell: I am located in southeastern Pa. Here the wages You are paying would get You the bottom of the barrel in trades people with the drug, drink and attendance problems they bring with them. There may be companies that can hold on to good people at 17-18/hour, but will find it hard to atract new high caliber people with that low a top rate. Here the pay You offer would probably get You a semi skilled production MIG welder that You would have to train to do what You need, and as the others mentioned the ones that learn enough to be usefull to another employer will find one.

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-23-2007 00:09

to all that are replying;
please realize that i do not have a great turn over or drug ,attendance issues.
most of my employees have been with me 2 - 3 years as we have only been around for 4 yrs
please review the reason i have asked the question.
i am trying to increase the wages of my employees although i must have comparisons to the industry to present to my HR department as they say they have performed their own research and say we are competetive with all we provide with health and dental and 401K as well as vacation and bonuses. i believe in my people and represent their needs as my passion to serve them to my best.there are no real competitors to my specific trade as maintenance to a company in the recycling industry so i have no real comparisons available to make.
we have a company management meeting thursday 27th to present discussion of wages company wide and i only represent the structural steel welding division and would like as much input as i can put on the table as evidence on paper as fact.realize that i have been in the welding biz for over 21 yrs and have my own reasons to believe we pay acceptionally low wages but i dont have more than an opinion.

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-23-2007 00:32

Tell your HR dept that without the workers, they wouldnt have a job, maybe they will lower their wages so they can raise the welders wage and thus,keep their jobs!

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-23-2007 01:50

Well now you have 7 more opinions that agree that your welders are underpaid.

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-23-2007 02:18

thank you to all and i invite more opinions that may be out there.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS

By ctacker (****)

Date 12-23-2007 03:52

I have a question, What does smater mean?

By darren

Date 12-23-2007 09:33

its the latin root word for homer simpson's "s m r t i am so doh"

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-23-2007 04:37

R Mitchell
Wages are local to regional. While you may be paying low wages, they may be in line for the area you live in. Some rural areas have wages which are quite low because of the local economy. Her in West Texas the ag shops only can pay 11-12 per hour. A 1/4 a$$ welder can make 18-20 just passing a pee test in the oilfield welding structural. You are going to have to call some local/regional competition and ask them what they pay. Also contact your state employment commision for ranges for your industry. I am going to guess you should be in the 18-22 range, but that is a WAG. That is $36,500 on the low side and $44,600 wages on the high end. With a 35% overhead you are looking at $56,100 low to $68,600 high. Can your margins support that or can you raise your prices to cover those wages.
If you are the only game in town, and there is no pricing support then you are about right. Typical wage increases this year in the welding industry is 4-5%. Again, can your company support an increase greater than the norm?
You are going to have to make some phone calls to back up your reasoning. Is one of your competition advertising for help. Do they post their wages? My experience with the HR types is they get into HR because they are too lazy to steal. Your HR people should be able to give you a printout of local average wages for your industry, state and region.
Check out this site:
http://ded.mo.gov/researchandplanning/occupations/oeswage/?soc=514121
This is put out by the Missouri Department of Economic Development.
Mean wages is 12.11 to 17.66
Entry is 8.97 to 11.55
Experienced is 13.05 to 20.75
This is off the state web site. In your area this may or may not be in line. But you cannot compare rural Northeast Missouri with St Louis or Chicago or the oil patch of Texas.
I would love to tell you give your guys a raise. But if it puts your company out of business, then you have not done anybody a favor.
BABRT's

By darren

Date 12-23-2007 09:23

i make more than double your wage here in kelowna bc canada and it is a pittance compared to what can be made in hotter economic climates. plus our benefits and other incentives. however an average house here is almost 500,000$. get a union that you can trust in there and up that wage, with the price of metals i am sure that you ownership is doing very well.
may i suggest I.A.M. can give you a contact and they will back your ass to the wall and shove cheap owners through it

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-23-2007 13:38

Darren,

This may be a tad off topic... But if the I.A.M. you are mentioning is the International Association of Machinests and Aerospace workers..... I would strongly disagree with you as to their value..

The IAM has lost over 50% of their membership since 1985. They have no disernable apprenticeship program to speak of... At least not in the U.S.... Certainly no welding apprentices. Two of the three largest U.S. Air carrers have voted them out in favor of other representation..... That speaks volumes.

The IAM has driven literally dozens of big players into bankrupsy because they refuse to negotiate cross utilization of journymen over various skills. And worst of all they will, like a cancer, try to bring everybody into the bargaining unit in the shop, skilled or unskilled, which over time means janitors, tool crib attendents recptionists are making $25 per hour, with no skills.

I have no beef with collective bargaining, Unions are a great tool to drive up all wages in a region... But if your going to bring in a union.. Look to one that has a strong local presence providing apprenticeships and keeps their representation strictly focused on craft.

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-23-2007 15:02 Edited 12-23-2007 15:10

DOH !!! Pretty funny thanks for noticing it was only a test.
I dont need Union support and that is not what i am asking about.
thanks for the web site info dbigkahuna.
you are correct about the wages in the area being different across the region.
the Co. i work for has profits comparible to those of companies like Sprint so i am sure money is not a problem. my location is new although the company is over 30 yrs in bussiness.
just trying to get the wages fair across the company. HR thinks all welding positions should be the same to be fair i dont see fair as an option to be skilled and paid for it. others in the co. want to work for my location because of the wage although their skillsets are not the same. we also have the same issues with our mechanics department.
THANKS

By JA

Date 12-23-2007 18:32

Ironworkers Union Los Angeles - welder-$34.09+...........

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-24-2007 04:16 Edited 12-24-2007 04:20

R, good luck with the HR types. I have little use for anyone who gets into HR. I do feel they are too lazy to steal. If it is HR's position all welders shoudl be the same, then tell the little HR puke the welders all need 20.00 or they will be gone. I went up against HR two weeks ago about the wages/raises and he/she told me there was no room. I told him/her either get the raises in the 7-10% range or we would be losing over 1/2 half of out welders. I know a compeditor who will hire my welders because we have a very tough testing/entry program. After 60 days, if they are still with us, they are jam up. My competetion raised his welders pay and my welders knew it before the first paychecks.
I called the VP of operations , told him the situation and HR should be coming around. He/she was po'ed the last time I talked to them and christmas pretty well shut down everything until after new years.

If this is a hill you will die on for your welders, then stand your ground. Be as unreasonable as HR is going to be stupid. I personally feel a 3 tiered welder system with measurable levals is a better, fairer way to go. You would have entry which would be basic knowledge, middle which would be cutting and fitting basis shapes tacking and non code welding and the high end would be those welders qualified to do the code work along with basic skills, cutting and fitting. $13,$17, and $21. Everyone gets to qualify to move up every 60 days. Maybe even a AWS certified welders program with another $2-3.

Good luck!
BABRt's

By darren

Date 12-23-2007 22:49

although this is contrary to my posts intent i really appreciate the information as it will give me an ability to ask questions based on this info.
i think i will make a rare accedance to your statement. although we get paid more because of our collective bargaining there are some political nuances within the union mindset that i find contrary to my own. i became a shop steward because of an idealistic belief that i could change things. things changed alright, from good to bad for me. management thinks that if i bring up issues i am a pain in the a$$ if i don't get the resolution that the employee wanted (almost always absurd) i am a company man.
everything has its good and bad points and i appreciate you bringing up some of the bad points.
our current provincial government is very non labour friendly so that also has an affect on the unions effectiveness as well
in response to the everybody on board thing they do do that, i negotiated a very very lucrative contract for our union and because we increased the spread between unskilled and skilled labour i was almost lynched. the bottom of the list still received very impressive increases but because the very skilled received even more, it was bedlam.
darren

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 01:38

Very good post Darren

I like the way you think and applaude you for going into the trenches to be a shop steward... I've been on both sides of the table in both IAM and AFT negotiations and it's very very hard not to take things personally...

Please don't take my criticisim of the IAM personally.... Let's be very clear; I like you and I don't like them :)

By makeithot (***)

Date 12-24-2007 03:02 Edited 12-24-2007 03:04

"providing apprenticships and keeps their representation strictly focused on craft ". No truer words we're said .

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-24-2007 12:19

thanks for everyones time all of this is a help although the union info wont help, it is information to hold.i also have been on both sides of those polotics and have chosen the path i am on now for reasons kept to my self as this is not the topic i have asked about.i like the 3 tier idea as the millwrights have similiar ways in the shop environment as 1st class - 3rd class fitters and it works for them without complaints. i feel we should be at $14 - $18 and so does the OES chart you referred me to. i do realize that no matter what you make or pay you always feel you neeed more and oh well you can only do so much. my company employees between 40 -60% legal imigrants (all nationalaties)and these people work hard and cheap with few complaints. this may as well be a problem with getting higher wages.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-24-2007 14:27

Hello R. Mitchell!

Does that mean that 60 to 40% are "Illegal workers" or, as the politically correct pundits want all of us to call them: "undocumented workers???" If this is correct then talk about an HR department that is illegally hiring some of it's employees!!! Good Luck in getting higher wages because if it were up to the HR department, they would have a workforce that is being paid in pennies per hour!!!

Merry Christmas to you and your family!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-25-2007 13:33

i am sure my exact words were "legal imigrants of all nationalaties" we do extreme checks and do report illegals

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-25-2007 13:51 Edited 12-25-2007 13:54

Not to doubt your word but then again, why is it that you post:
"my company employees between 40 -60% legal immigrants (all nationalaties)and these people work hard and cheap with few complaints." Do the math here!!! The percentages you gave only confirms that my question does make sense...

Does'nt it??? Those are your exact words above as I copied, and pasted them from the post in question so, please do'nt try to change the values. ;)

I mean why not type 100% if you mean what you have written...
Hmmm, was this a "fruedian slip" on your part?

Respectfully,
Henry

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-25-2007 17:28 Edited 12-26-2007 03:09

[deleted]

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 02:22

Hey dbigkahunna!
Thanks for the info but, I already know about the rules and possible legal ramifications when dealing with questionable identities.

Now to address your concern about whether or not I'm beating the drum on my political views towards immigration in this forum... Your concern is unfounded and your statement is clearly based on an assumption that is'nt true at all!!!

If you read my last post, I asked R. Mitchell what exactly he meant when he wrote the percentages of legal workers, and was wondering if it was a fruedian slip on his part for writing it the way he did because he could've saved me tyhe trouble of wondering what he meant by simply writing that the rest of the workers were local... Since he did'nt, I felt compelled to seek clarification... That's all!!!

You read into it too much -PERIOD!!! So PLEASE, before you start accusing me of something that I clearly did not do on the forum, send me a PM to seek clarification. I suggest that you re-read my last post again, and slowly this time.

Respectfully,
Henry

By banshee35 (**)

Date 12-25-2007 18:34

could it be that 40- 60% are immigrants and the remaining hands are locals? i'm pretty sure thats what was meant.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 02:24

Hi Banshee35!

You're probably right in what he meant but, I needed to ask the question in order to seek clarification as to what he meant.

Respectfully,
Henry

By dbigkahunna (****)

Date 12-26-2007 02:57 Edited 12-26-2007 03:08

Henry,
You are wanting to start a fight. Have fun.
BABRT's

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 12-26-2007 03:16 Edited 12-26-2007 03:22

I forgive you too!!!

So you can tell just by reading??? You must think you're always right huh? How disappointing!!!
But like I said before, I forgive you just like God does!

By XPERTFAB (**)

Date 12-26-2007 05:17

What to pay your welders? Hmmm! My rule of thumb is to average the pay of all the best local shops for their best hands. After that I set my own pay at theat rate and live on it for one month. At the end of the month I evaluate how close I came to actally making a living. To that amount I add the difference between what it cost to live and what I had paid myself. Divide that figure by 160 hrs and that becomes the pay. Obviously you filter the number for taxation and such. Ultimately a man or woman who cannot reasonably live on the sallary paid to them will be forced to move on regardless of the love for the job. I have always paid beyind what was local scale. I cann ask more of my men and they become self policing of the other guys in the crew who might be slack. Helps to cull the herd with herd members. Remember a no bull policy about wages and paychecks makes it easier for a no bull policy on performance.

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 12-26-2007 12:21

thanks dbigkahuna,
that is where i am coming from everyone here is legal and i am sorry if others look at everything with negative eyes.i am looking for lagitimate opinions and this is what comes back at me.i was trying to let you understand the situation for the best replies your help has been appriciated and helpful.
thanks again

By R Mitchell (*)

Date 01-04-2008 22:51

FYI the research paid off the company has increased the welders as much in some cases $2.00 per hour and mechanics as much as $3.00
now my wage on the other hand is another thing all together which is disapointing.Ohh well till next time se ya later