Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Welding causing hardened metal?
- - By PA (*) Date 01-15-2008 16:59
Good Day Everyone,

I need to confirm following:

Here's my situation: I've been drilling and tapping holes. I've had the need to redrill the holes because they are slightly off. I welded the holes closed and went to redrill and retap them. Once I had no problems whatsoever, but twice I basically couldn't drill them all the way through. I ended up using a sledge and a punch to finish the hole. I then dressed the hole up with the drill and tried to tap them. They were extremely difficult to tap, and I basically ruined two taps. The resulting threads were not completely cut by the tap, but I could force a bolt into the holes. With all my difficulty, it seems like the metal hardened through the process of welding and cooling too quickly. Is this a correct assumption?? Is there any way to avoid this in the future??

Thanks for any help you can give.

Regards,

PA
Parent - By johnnyh (***) Date 01-15-2008 17:11
The weld metal is usually always much harder to drill/ cut through than carbon steel.  I am sure the others will give specifics on why. The only way to avoid it would probably drill them right the first time or spend some some extra money on an awesome drill bit.  The metal around the HAZ has a different chemical composition than the non affected zone.  Just wait....these guys will give a much better answer than mine. 
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 01-15-2008 17:35
Hello PA, a number of factors can have the effect that you ran into on your hole re-drilling. Type or grade of material will determine whether the welds will become hard in many cases. Whether pre-heat and post-heat were used can have an effect depending on material grade. If you plugged the holes without cleaning out or off the machining, drilling, or tapping fluid or oil, could possibly contribute to the hardness of the weld filler metal because the carbon-based fluids could combine with the weld metal to add to hardness. Type of welding process used for the plugging could contribute, sometimes dualshield FCAW weld deposits will exhibit less finished hardness than the same weld performed with GMAW, similar types of conditions can be noticed depending on the type of SMAW electrode that may have been used. Quenching or rapid cooling of welds after completion can have an effect and should be taken into consideration.
     In general, if you are going to plug holes that will need to be re-drilled and/or tapped, try to clean the old holes of any sorts of cutting, drilling, or tapping fluids. Use a bit of pre-heat and post/heat while filling these holes and allow them to cool slowly after the welding has been done. When possible try to use a welding process and filler or alloy selection that remains ductile after the welding has been done, various alloys and such will exhibit different as-welded hardnesses. There are certainly other contributing factors and the others who have already responded and will soon respond will have additional thoughts for your consideration. Best regards, aevald
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 01-15-2008 21:14
Welp, folks I don't think it gets any better explained then that.  Amazing what little things can ruin someones day huh.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-16-2008 04:36
To elaborate on aevalds post: depending on the overall size of the part You are welding the heat affected zone can be cooled fast enough by the relatively cold mass of the rest of the part to harden some materials even if You don't do anything to cool the work faster. The obvious problem with parts of unknown alloy is You don't know if it will get hard untill too late. As Allen points out if pre and post heat are possible it would be good insurance on questionable parts. If You plug the holes with bolts and weld the top of the hole be sure to use low strength bolts, like grade 3. High strength bolts get quite hard after welding.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 01-16-2008 05:00
Nice additional points Dave and very well put. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By PA (*) Date 01-16-2008 16:03
Thanks Guys for your input.

Our shopguys are plugging 2 or 3 holes in mild steel plate for locational problem and drill bit doesn't produce straight hole throughout the plate. They are using hand-drill for the operation as the holes are for clearance purpose only.

I thought because of welding (plugging), it might (I may be wrong) possible drill bit went to softer material if not pressed properly. Is it possible??????

Just to give you guys more info in this regard.

Thank you all for your valuable input.

Regards,

PA
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-17-2008 05:55
The drill will tend to move into the softer material, even more so when using a hand drill. An anular cutter in a Mag drill would brobably be Your best bet short of putting the job on a milling machine or a horiz. boring mill and plunging with a 2 flute end mill.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 01-17-2008 22:56
Very good and concise explanation. I just so happen to be in need of answering that very question properly. Mind if I quote you?
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 01-17-2008 23:17
Hello Gerald, if you are asking me about my post and feel that it would be worthy of helping you to answer a question or explain a topic, feel free to do so. The information that I included in my response is made up of all sorts of things that I have either experienced on a personal level, had someone else show and explain to me, or have picked up from keeping the old eyes and ears open. Similarly, the additional points that Dave included are of great importance and can explain additionally some of the other reasons why welding solutions have to take many things into consideration. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 01-18-2008 21:10
Allan and Dave,

Thanks, the information was exceptionally helpful. In particular how it was worded. It's that last part I sometimes have trouble with.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-18-2008 04:09
If anything I posted is of use to You feel free to use it.
Parent - By PA (*) Date 01-22-2008 14:49
Guys,

Thanks a lot for your input.

Let me share the interesting thing. We used mag drill with center drill bit and we solved and tapped all what we wanted. Also we used pre and post heating. It helped. We need 3 holes-each 1.50" apart and in line- which we got slightly off center. But it's within tolerance limit.

On my part, it's an exercise and it's fun.

Thanks again all of you.

Regards,

PA
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Welding causing hardened metal?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill