Any of yall between 35-50 or so remember the talk of "welding use to be a good trade....and one day welders, mechanics etc. basically any highly skilled based trade....was gonna come back around and they will be at our mercy $$ ...cause nobody is taking the time to learn how to work and really do anything with their hands anymore....kind of talk was going round???????
Well we are trying to hire an experienced all around tig hand right now and I got to tell you.....I have talked to TWO out of 19 with any TIG experience at all. I look at some ads and what I see posted on this forum from time to time....if your young healthy and willing to shed some blood, sweat and tears you can go out and make a KILLING compared to Joe Blow and his 4 year degree. HMMMM it makes me think sharing what I know with my Daughter and perhaps one of my Sons is way more a gift to them then a good bonding memory. I know this may be a simplistic, opinionated, grass roots kind of subject here but its not like its not something that does not effect and touch us all in this game.
I really feel like the hands on dyed in the wool knowledge is getting scarcer and more rare. No offense to you fine fellows working in education in the field whatsoever. I just seem to run in to less and less "welders" that know what the hell they are talking about much less doing. I work with a guy that refuses to braze our oxy lines we build that has a diploma hanging right behind his welder...he is a TOP NOTCH Tig welder but he lacks this basic skillset....he does almost no oxy-acet work in our shop...he is shy on SMAW as well but yet he come up in job shop work. I might be rambling on a bit but do any of you guys see where I am going-coming from with this? That time of our knowledge/skills/experience/patience VAULE I think is going up almost daily. I literally feel like I am some kind of freak wizard with arcane knowledge sometimes with stuff that any welder should know how/what to do with. AND the most freaky part to me is I don't know jack compared to many I have met and know...I come on this forum and read about stuff that blows me away and I learn a lot everytime I dig in and READ.....
Well just something thats been on my mind of late....have a great Thursday.
Tommy
Concerning welding, I teach all the things I was taught (1974-1977), as well as the advanced technologies and techniques relevant in today's industrial environment.
Tommy,
Great Write-in... Appreciate your time... I Don't write in that often because when there is little or none to depend on everything takes longer to do.. If you're not where you are, you're no where... And the reward of the work is the work....
The proper discerning use of the internet(for research purposes) and a soundly-tuned shop( for hands on) make it a little more exciting and worthwhile. You also have a great Thursday...
Brian
"I don't know jack compared to many I have met and know...I come on this forum and read about stuff that blows me away and I learn a lot everytime I dig in and READ....."
That goes for everyone on the Forum Tommy. It's impossible for anyone member to "know it all". It's in the cumulative knowledge as contributed from everyone that nearly any answer can be found. Therefore, it is my opinion that your contributions are just as important as anyones. "I don't know jack" doesn't fly with me. I've read to many of your post for that one to be believed.
Regards,
Gerald
Welding helped pay my way to get a masters degree and I can still make double welding than I can with my degrees. I am here to tell you at age 35 there are no qualified people to do anything educated or not in the area I live. You virtually have to do everything yourself or go back and fix what you have them do, do you really gain anything except lost productivity?
This country is going to be on it's knees begging for any kind of trades or manual labor and it sure will be a premium.
Tommy, I have been in a learning stage for 46 years about welding and all of its Processees, Procedures, machines, gases, electrodes and everything that goes with it. I only have these forums to offer some of the knowledge gained over a lifetime. There are not a lot of people out there that care as we do. John Gault
Brain Drain..... It's a national emergency.
Allow me to share a few statistics to help fuel this important conversation.
1. According to the National Tooling an Machining Association, 40% of member companies are turning away business due to lack of skilled Welders
2. According to a recent study by the National Association of Manufacturers, 60% of all manufacturers reject half of all applicants as unqualified because lack of basic skill.
3. The Wall Street Journal reports that the average age for an American welder is 54 and will continue to climb. As this wave of retirement looms. American education generally is not prepared to address this obvious labor shortfall.
4. The American Welding Society has projected that the labor shortage of welding professionals is expected to be as high as 200,000 by the year 2010 as baby boomers retire.
5. According to the Department of Labor Statistics the median wage for welders increased 17% from 2000-2004, making welding careers increasingly attractive. So why are high schools closing weld shops across the fruited plain
6. A study commissioned in May 2002 by the American Welding Society and the Edison Welding Institute reported that nearly half of U.S. Industries reported difficulties locating qualified individuals with welding expertise - from apprentices to welding engineers.
7. The Hobart Institute of Technology published the article "Change Creates Opportunity" which stated in 2006: "25,000 students will begin their welding careers this year while 50,000 experienced welders are expected to retire"
Some people are doing things right........ It's not all doom and gloom
8. The Southeastern Institute of Manufacturing and Technology's "Women in Welding Program" expanded their facilities with the support of ESAB Co. from 12 students to 80 students and has graduated more than 300 women in their welding programs.
9. Female welders in the U.S. have increased in numbers by about 15% from 200-2006 according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.
10. The U.S. Department of Labor's Occupational Handbook cites the expected increase in welding jobs through 2012 to be as high as 20 percent
11. Wisconsin Job Center reports 200+ Job openings per this date (24 Jan 2008)
Speaking about a total colaps, we have it in the welding field and the reason for the closing of welding schools, in the high school level, lack of money and knowledgeable instructors. Spent 15 years working high schools for ABC (Associated Builders and Contractors) in Houston, Texas. John
Lawrence,
Nearly any skilled craft is feeling that pinch
Regards,
Gerald
"2. According to a recent study by the National Association of Manufacturers, 60% of all manufacturers reject half of all applicants as unqualified because lack of basic skill."
Gotta say, I reject over 50% because they cant pass the visual on a 1" 3G FCAW using 1/16" wire and c02. The ones I try giving a chance to are the ones that don't waste my time. If they weld the root or before they weld the root,they come to me and say they never done it or cant do it, I try and start them as a helper because they have the sense to stop before welding something out all day only to have it rejected!
When i weld(ed) I would carefully look at each pass and evaluate my welding. if it wasn't pretty i would stop, and grab some scrap and figure out why it wasn't pretty. So many times I inspect welds that people will go all day long welding crap( like the photo's i posted on another thread, but not that bad) and have no clue that its all gonna be rejected!
Where has the pride in one's work gone?
I have tried for 6 years to find and hire anyone with the WANT TO to learn how to repair welding equipment. To date I have found no one. It is me, my Dad and husband. I have people who say "Can you hook a diagnostic/computer up to it and know whats wrong", or I run into people that know electrical but know nothing about an engine. Blows my mind. I have 2 brothers that don't know which end of the nail goes to the wall, and here I am sittin in the middle of a 77 Cutlass tearin out the engine and overhaulin the tranny.
Very few take pride in their hard earned knowledge and ability, they want a computer to tell them whats wrong so they don't have to excert any energy. Me I like to go home at the end of the day oil up to my elbows and draggin b-hind tired, knowing I did something. I have taught classes at the local Vo-Tech, trying to find my next employee, and these kids look at me, a 35 year old woman, like I was crazy even though i offer $20 an hour and full benefits.
I can think of a few guys who would love that opportunity! and they're respectable guys too. but they're here in Florida.
If those guys had any sense, they'd get together and get on a bus while the getting is good.
Just my opinion.
Regards,
Gerald
That is a said statement. 20 bucks an hour for a trainee. IF I were 18 I'd be moving there to take you up on it.
There has just been far to much focus on college education which is a good thing, but the truth is, the U.S. wasn't built by clicking a mouse button, but that same mouse button will be it's undoing if we don't instill pride and work ethic in the youth of America.
Regards,
Gerald
at least once or twice a month I have guys asking me where I learned how to weld. I think the desire to learn is there for most people, but the means to get good, inexpensive training isn't there. you have to remember, most people who want to learn are already poor. they want a good paying job, but you have to pay for an education to get that good pay. I've got a guy I'm teaching right now (for free) who has 3 kids and is paying $800/month child support on a $14.25/hr wage. he's in a hole he can't dig himself out of by himself.
but you're all correct...the shortage is here. young people aren't getting into the trades very much anymore. it's the same story for the computer and technical industries. the healthcare industry has a shortage too. they have all exploded so much and so fast that the population hasn't had time to recuperate.
I'm starting to consider starting a small welding training business. Any thoughts/ideas? where could I get some start-up money? I love teaching people not just HOW to weld, but why it works too.
and it's amazing to see how many "welders" are out there that don't know how to use tack welding to their advantage. they wanna tack here, and tack there, but not over there first where it matters the most. or they put a tack on something and try to beat it to death to make it line up...I come along and tell them to cut that tack and put a tack on the other side..."OOOOHHHHH! I didn't know that!"
I've been told that the high school guidance counselors focus only on putting students in a 4-year college program because that is the measure of their performance. They get no credit on their performance ratings for students that enroll in vo-tech schools. So our own educational system is working in a direction that is contrary to the needs of industry. There are others who can speak more to this problem than I. Perhaps some of the educational policies being pushed by the federal government are contributing to this problem. However, until our educational leaders and congressional leaders get on board with industry, recognize the changes needed and do something about it, there is no chance of recovery. We need some strong leadership and representation from AWS and industry associations on this.
well as a young welder i can answr alot of the questions that are constantly being asked..im a union heavy equipment operator and i went to welding school so that when i destroy a bucket or whatever i could fix it myself. once i started welding i could honestly say i fell in love with it. I like the fact that i get to be a true craftsmen and i get to see the fruits of my labor.
one thing i can say about welding here in NY is that unless your union wich depending on who you know is sometimes hard to get into. These company's today dont want to pay an honest wage. And the owners of these company's are getting rich off the sweat of the weak minded men's back and its a damn shame. welding is a tremendous talent. and the working man is a dyeing brees as much as it hurts me to say it....Im proud to be blue collar and i know that no matter where i live in the country or the world.I can make a honest living for myself and my family.
hard work pays off
I don't know about guidance counselor performance measures, but it was certainly the general view among the kids when I was in junior high and high school that you only went to vo-tech if you were too dumb to do anything else. Smart kids who went to vo-tech were "wasting" their intelligence. That was so thoroughly ingrained in us that even now I have a tough time making myself understand that it isn't really true.
Contrast that to Switzerland, where, I read recently, about 70% of the population goes to vocational school instead of academic high school.
Hg
Hg,
I had that same crap in high school. Vo-tech helped me along to where I am now. Over the years I've stayed in contact with some of them. Funny thing is, except for one Doctor and one lawyer out of the group I associated with, I make more than all of them now, and have traveled more than any of them.
If I don't inspect I weld, or a bit of both. The future for welders and inspectors is considerably brighter than most of the degrees collecting dust on those peoples walls.
Regards,
Gerald
There are many reasons why there are not a lot of young people entering the trades, some things I will list involve all the trades, others are specific to welding. In a trade job You must WORK for Your money. This concept doesn't always sit well with high school age kids, and some don't ever warm up to the idea. Many trades that offer a fair living wage don't offer the potential high earning capacity that some professions offer. Parents and guidance counselers encourage students persue profesional careers because they themselves don't value the trades. Trades jobs don't give You a high social status. Yes it is true , there are shallow people to whoom this matters. Wages in many trades have not risen at the rate of inflation in the last 20 years, making these jobs less apealing. We are supposedly in the "Information Age" and suposedly have or will have an "Information Based Economy" This load of crap pushed loads of American kids into the IT field over the last 20 years, and while everyone was watching manufacturing industries move away, it didn't occur to many of these folks that an IT job could be exported even easier, as information goes through a cable a lot easier than a physical product goes in a container. We are not yet to the point where foreign construction companies come in and build Our piplines, refineries, powerplants, bridges & buildings with foreign skilled trades people, but it could happen, and might not be far off. If that day comes construction & welding wages will be depressed. When I was a VoTec student in the '70s there were only a few students in the welding course that had any potential, that shop was largely filled with encourageable boys who kept things in a state of disruption. The 2 or 3 kids who actually wanted to learn didn't really get the education they deserved. Some of the fault lies with that particular instructor, but this was publick school, they didn't get to pick and choose the students.
a lot of reasons why theres a shortage ..had a list of them but too long to type here. But a few reasons can be found if you look at other countries that have the best welders and don't have this problem. You'd be suprised and.. its people who we do not like to associate with here in the US...even if they grew up here and are citizens. Ive seen several occasions in the pipe welding industry, where if someone didn't look like a brother on the crew (from the foreman's point of view, the person wasn't even given any chance! This is the United States, and our un-united attitude has got to change. I'm an old hand n grew up in Alabama and have welded around the world. We're not the only people that can weld, and it DOES NOT take a certain BREED. Ive seen bunch of quality welders in a place overseas that we wish we hand now. and we worry about wages being depressed. I hate to profile but these same people and are citizens here, do have high paying jobs here (just not in the welding industry). I think if we stop the good ole boy attitude would've given chance to other people no matter who they are, then we wouldnt have it get as bad as it is. But have no worry THE SHORTAGE IS ****** HERE, see you in 2012 when the ***** starts to f*** **!
if ethics and integrity were for sale at walmart for cheap, most people would still not have enough to be a tradesman, i get asked why i am a welder and did not go into academia on a regular basis. i really don't have an answer except being a welder is who i am. some of the smartest and most beautiful people i know are in our trade and i consider it an honour to count some as friends.
how do we get that across to the younger generation when, that is not what they want to hear. being a pimp or a drug dealer/hip hop artist or a gangster or a player with all the vices and the power to crush your enemies is what they want, its what they're sold and told in the media, selling a hard steady climb that will ultimately lead to success does not fit with our instant gratification society. we've had guys quit because they could'nt listen to their i pod at work!?!
quite frankly i would be worried if i could make sense of it all, because i would not want the thoughts that it would take to be able to rationalize these crazy times to run through my head.
some days are hard, some days are good, still i am glad i am a welder.
darren
As one of the younger generation to get into welding, I have to say I thoroughly love it and am grateful to know how to weld.
The newer generations don't give a flying poo about working for a living, heck they don't even want to push paper for a living. They want the world on a platter and a palm pilot that wipes their a***s for them...
I'm seeing it at college too, everyone's trying to get into the jobs that pay the most but require the least work... and few of them even put the effort into learning the basics to those jobs, let alone anything advanced...
They all seemed doomed to end up in debt with a liberal arts degree or an IT degree and a job at Wendy's serving burgers and fries, assuming they didn't drop out because they couldn't take the classes, IF they even showed up for them...
In one of my math classes last semester, we started with about 20 people and by the 6th week we were down to 12 or 13... And this was simple math from high school........ And it's like that for every class I'm in!!!
Lack of skilled workers??? Hell in a few years well is hurting for people that know how to add 2+2 without drooling on them self's.......
Overall it doesn't bother me too much, because I can look around at all my classmates and snicker to myself that even IF I failed out (which isn't going to happen) I could still go and get a better paying job than most of them after 4 years and 20K in debt....
Yeah... I'm a little evil towards the younger generations..... but the burns on my arms have earned me that much if nothing else....
That and im pretty tired of hearing people from my generation pissing and moaning about how theres no good jobs and they dont get paid enough...
My answer to all of them is the same: "LEARN TO WELD!" and it always falls on deaf ears.
Again, just want to say that I love welding and this forum is one of the best things to happen to me scene I got into the field
Thank you all
- Clif
cliff i have to agree with you on the generation coming up. i grew up on a 1000 acre ranch i learned what work was at a young age i look around me and people my age dont want to get off their keister for nothing and i am part of this generation. but in my opinion part of that is to blam on the generation before us not cracking the whip and making there kids do stuff for themselves. alot of these kids were born in the 70s maybe some people were too busy with other stuff to make there kids mind i see alot of kids with silver spooons in there mouth what worries me even more are the new things going on with the goverment trying to tell you how to raise your kids i think it will be even worse with the generation after this certain things start at a very early age im not meaning to open a can of worms here just thought i would add my 2 cents
mody454 , i remember working and wanting to go to work with my dad . it used to be ok for kids to do that . he was a union iron worker . i ditched form high school every time i could to go out on the jobs . all those guys had came out of WW2 and many were in their prime . they really took care of us kids and taught us how to do everything , i guess now it was because they had such a hard time , they wanted us to know how to get by . when i was in so.cal. in 1987 my mom and brother and his sons came down for a trip and i took them around , in our travels i took them to a school that i went to work with my dad on in 1960 . i went to the office and asked if we could walk around and look at the oldest building to look at some of the welds on the out side of the structure , they wanted me to talk to one of the classes , i said yes but all i would say is i ditched school to work with my dad , they said to go look at the building and not talk to any kids . i went with my bnlaw and my dad to a nite adult education welding class , my bnlaw was welding and they talked to my dad he worker in ship yards during ww2 and they wanted him to instruct but he always was working and too busy the instructor was way junior than my dad and asked him why he was even there , i remember dad told him he liked to watch young welders because they didn't know some things were hard to weld and he was learning how to do those things by watching them , and could allways learn from others . while i was there i was able to see the puddle and have welded eversince . i guess it get in your blood , but have always enjoyied welding . by the way did you e-mail me your snail mail address , i found some of those pipe stand parts out in the shop , i can send you a set you can make them easily , just copy and improve on them for your needs . good luck . willie
mody454 , got your pm .
will try to send care package next couple of weeks . don't have a camera but will include drawing sketches . have to catch up between storms . good luck . willie
thanks willie let me know what i owe ya
mody454 , got to dig up a box and packing , but too cold to right now , were waiting for our next storm to come in should be in a few days and warm up about-10 now . i'll just send it free hope you can make it work for you , i've made many varations of them for years to fab with , but like this type because they pack in small area and don't get stuck outside where they get frozen down and are a pain to break out of the ice . will let you know when i send . good luck always . willie
thanks willie i owe you won hey my mom is coming up there she got a wild hair to buy truck and travel trailer and work in camp grounds all summer. shes working denali north
mody454 , have her e-mail me . if she hasen't been up before i might be able to give some advice . hauled freight many years from all parts of the states to alaska . lots of things to see every where , but certain things need to do for alcan travel , since first of year she will need a passport to enter canada . and other things to keep from being refused to enter . good luck . willie
This is some good stuff. Does anyone know of any articles or write ups or web sites that have this information. I would like to get some of our people this info.
Jim
I'd really like to go have a word with my old guidance counselor and let her know where i'm at today and how much money I make. She tried to talk me out of joining the welding program back in highschool and sway me into college prep classes with all my friends. (Big negative on that one Ghost rider) Man what ashame that would of been if I would of listened to her. I wonder what all the kids these days are getting into since none are looking into the trades. I hear they have video gaming degree's out there now so maybe thats going to hurt us further down the road.
I have to disagree with quite a bit of this, in my work I see quite a few young people who are hard working, and their attitude/altitude, work ethic, whatever you want to call it is as good as my generation's was. They are out there, I work around them all the time.
I see quite a bit of interest in welding among the guys in my oldest daughters age range. This generation will be just fine, if you don't believe me, look at the young men & women serving in the armed forces today.
I don't see the world as a whole looking down on welders or other craftsmen. Some of course but not many. I can't park my welding rig anywhere without generating interest from people walking by, I meet a lot of people that way, they just want to ask about my equipment/work, just talk welding or want to know if I'm hiring.
I agree totally with the high schools long ago abandoning vocational ed and trying to funnel every student into college. That is their mindset and their gravy. And I do see faculty in the local high school looking down at welders and others in the trades, they don't have any idea what kind of money a man can make welding, as a lineman, ect. including better insurance and pension than those same teachers. But the market abhors a vacuum, the pendulum may swing somewhat slowly, but it swings with authority and when word spreads of a shortage of workers in high paying jobs, people will train to fill those jobs.
Look at the hundreds of threads on old SA-200 welding machines. The current boom in oil/gas work is the driving force behind the great increase in interest in those machines, nothing more. People have heard of the boom, the wages involved and the demand and they want in on it, human nature at it's best.
Academia, even down to the high school level is so disconnected from the real world now that it might take quite a while to reverse the current mentality.
The welding classes at my local community college are packed.
JTMcC.
Plasma Brain and Moby....
Its not all bad from the parents side.....I do agree that I see an amazing amount of 12-18 year olds that are nothing more then spoiled brats with no morals who do not have either the knowledge or want to to wash their own clothes. That is not that kids fault...its his/her so called parents fault entirely. There are still parents like myself and my wife....all our kids wash/dry and hang all their laundry, by age twelve in my house you are required to know how to cook almost any meal we eat, everyone washes dishes, rakes the yard, helps me with projects etc. And they do not even get an allowance!!!!! But they know I will provide whatever they really need and most things they want. Point being every child in my house will be ready to take care of themselves and have a work ethic before they leave. That in itself will put them head and shoulders above the majority of their own generation. Don't worry about those that don't care about even themselves ...just be ready to lend a hand to those that honestly want to dig their way out.
This post has a life of its own as most do and I have been interested in all the commentary.....originally all I was getting at was there seem to be a lot less experienced multi-process/all around CAPABLE welders out there. Might be my area but I believe as already said here it is really all across the country. So to you younger guys learning your ropes....get everything you can get out of all those around you...learn stuff even if it seems like eccentric techniques and you will not use it. Its just gonna add to your value and your options down the road. Learn fitting, sheetmetal, fabrication and how to use all the associated tools. Those skills have always had me land on me feet and get the job over the guy who "just burnt rods...or run a wire gun". Knowing how to do one thing better than anyone is great....knowing how to hang with the crowd on anything is better.
Gerald thank you man...coming from you that means a lot!
Best regards to all
Tommy
By chris2698 
Date 01-26-2008 04:06
Edited 01-26-2008 04:08
I have to agree Tommy I'm 28 years old I tig weld stainless allday. I actually sent a message to you about a tig job up there in little Rock but seen on there website they really wouldn't help with moving so I was just to far away from there to be able to work there but it sounded like a great place to work I just wish I was closer because it sounded like a place I would really enjoy. Let me say this, I went and took a welding test today for another company I had no idea what the test was wheather it was stick mig or tig this test was setup by a friend. I got there the guy was like ok you're gonna tig the root and run a hot pass with tig vertical and the mig weld the fill and cap all uphill. For the first time today I realized I really need to find another job that does not do just tig that does tig,mig and stick because yeah I maybe really good at tig but hell I can't get a job anywhere else because sh*t all I can do is tig. The shop I work at now you're really forced to learn to fit, trust me I hate to fit I love to just weld allday but it is what it is, I have to learn to fit because even though I don't like it now it could help me down the road. I actually called my old teacher today and said hey I want to come back to school and take a refresher course in stick and mig welding because I really need to be able to do all of it to get a job somewhere else. I'm really agravated that I haven't done any mig or stick and have kinda forgotten how to do it. I know once I start doing it, it will all come back. They say brazing is a dieing art well maybe it is but I still would like to be able to learn it I feel I'll do whatever it takes to keep me on the job.
So yeah even though I BOMB this welding test today I still learn a sh*t load from this experience realized that being a good tig hand will not always help you getting a job you need to learn it all and get good at it all.
Chris
tommy i agree with you thats the way it should be i have a six and a three year old and my wife is in the military believe me both those little girls pull there wieght around the house thats how it was when i was a kid when my father was a kid and so on and another thinng i was raised on good ol fashioned but whoopins too so was my father and his father i think our goverment trying to step in and say you cant whoop your kids is rediculas
yeah me too kix i had to repat my senior yr cause i rodeoed and partied to much and cheated to get out the 2nd time and they tried to convince me to go to college i told her with grades like mine yeah right besides i cant afford she said sumthin about grants and loans so well i tried turns out my mom made to much money for me to get any kind of help so i started hanging iron and did that for about 8 yrs then went into auto body repair got bored with so i bought a machine and started chasing drilling rigs i'd say for a flunky like me not having any formal training in welding just the basics in ag class and what dad tught me before he passed i'm doing pretty damn good show me a college grad that can bank 5k a week sittin on thier tush tapping keys all day
"Lack of skilled workers??? Hell in a few years well is hurting for people that know how to add 2+2 without drooling on them self's......."
The most disturbing part about your post is that your in that generation and probably seeing things those of us that are a bit longer in the tooth do not see.
However; to give them a break, not all of them are lazy. I've seen some motivated younger generations.
To take a few pages from elsewhere in the world:
There are several societies in the world in which they are in a more advanced stage of the problem the U.S. is currently facing in so far as lack of skilled workers.
One individual I worked with in Mexico recently was a young man of 22 years. Hard worker, motivated, just looking for the oppurtunity to break out of the grind.
It's not so easy to complete a formal education in his location, but this gentlemen did not give up, he finished his highschool while working on the project I was on. Whereas many of his peers were pressuring him to give it up asking him what good it would do him. He and people like him are the new face of tomorrows leaders. The never give up attitude is important, as is the desire and motivation to succeed that comes from within rather than without. It's real tempting to just give up as a young person in light of social pressures. Those with the inner fortitude like the gentlemen I describe will one day be looking at their peers mowing their lawns and washing their cars, or flipping their burgers.
1 1/2 cents worth,
Gerald
Gerald and everyone else,
Yeah, you're right. Not all of the younger crews are lazy, just a lot more than their used to be especially in respect to those joining the trades. If my opinion's seem a little more jaded than most, It's due to what I've seen happen to people from my class and classes before me.
When I got into welding at the end of high school (got into votec my last year there because none of the teachers told me it was an option, I found out about it from my friends who were in it.) I started noticing the differences even between the grades in the school.
The classes before me when I was in 9th grade had some bad eggs but most of the class graduated and went on to better things like college and such. One of the best welders to come out of my town came from those grades; unfortunately he was a heroin addict and an alcoholic and has been bouncing around between dead end jobs and being homeless.
My class ('03) seemed like we were doing fine until 10th-11th grade, then it went downhill fast. On top of the tragic events of 9/11 which we watched unfold on TVs throughout the school... we also lost 2 classmates. One died in a car crash and the other in her sleep from an aneurysm. My class seemed to loose interest after that. Almost half of my class started slacking and leaving school; people who were dedicated students up until that point. The call down lists in the morning for people who skipped class or got in trouble started taking up 2 pages. It was bad; we were the worst class in the school's history. Between drop outs and expulsions, about 1/4 of the class of 300 or so didn't graduate. Some of those who did only barely made it. Many ignored college and now have pointless jobs. Some of the ones who made it out of college still don't have any kind of real job despite having degrees. As far as I know, out of the.....4 people from my school that took welding in votec, only 2 of us are still welding.
As bad as that is, it seems we set the bar for the younger crew ('04 and below) and they have done everything possible to set the bar higher by stooping lower. Dropouts, drug use, fights, pregnancies, and more dead kids thanks to stupidity... If my memory serves me, there was only 1 kid from the '04 class who went into welding, and he got expelled the year after I left for having drugs on school grounds. He gave up on welding and I haven't heard from him after that.
I tried showing another kid from that class how to weld, and he picked up on it and he seemed to like it... but apparently he liked putting painkillers up his nose more. He drifted away and now he's back at Wendy's making burgers.
So if I seem a bit hard on the younger ones, that's where I'm coming from. I've seen them screw things up for them self's worse than my class and the classes above me.
But to be fair, I worked with a 19 year old kid who when I started at the shop was my boss and the kid was absolutely amazing. He could fit anything and weld in every possibly way and make it look good doing it. He could get a "stack of dimes" like weld using GMAW while running circles around the rest of the crew.
He already had a kid with a slightly older lady (I think she was 23?) and he was doing quite well for himself despite working for a company that didn't care about its workforce. He left to go get a better job working closer to his home, as he was driving about an hour to get there.
Sadly, that's the only example of a motivated young person that I've seen...
Thats enough ranting for the moment, time to go wake up and do something.
-Clif
Hey Kay , find a place to scatter 150 head of cows and a bunch of junk farm equipment and I'll be at your door ready ! Oh ya better find some kennels for my 20 head of coyote hounds too ! BTW 1972 was a helluva year for high class citizens like us!!!! 35 too
Chris if the search for us keeps going the way it is....they might end up offering you a signing bonus at least...but we are not there yet. Your attitude and the positiveness of it will take you wherever you want to go in short time. Just reading your post makes me sorry that we will miss out on tempting you into the hanger!!!!! But thats ok.....you keep up your attitude and I am sure you will make me jealous very quickly on the jobs you land yourself.
Thanks Tommy yeah it's tuff around here seems like everyone wants someone with years of experience, but come on... I read somewhere which I think was on aws here that the older welders are retiring so fast that there just isn't enough younger guys to fill the positions. Yeah I was hoping I could land something soon but it maybe a little while before something pops up but it'll come just takes a little time. I don't mind traveling just would be nice to find something that offers perdiem and yes I know there is alot of perdiem out there but with not alot of experience I just don't want to travel way out of the state you know? Tommy for whatever reason I run into someone looking for a tig job and are wanting to move I'll send them your way but then again if there is a good sign on bonus then I may end up having to take a drive on up there. :)
Chris
Lenny Spero hit the nail on the head. I'm 35 yrs. old and have 19 yrs. under the hood. I did 2 yrs. welding in high school, got my AAS in welding tech. after that, and got my CWI last month. I've always worked in the Rochester, NY area, and can't find anyone who will pay over 18.00 hr. Move? Well, that's easier said than done. Going somewhere where you don't know anyone, with a wife, a 3 yr. old, and one on the way can't be an easy task. I know that nothing worth having in life comes easy, but moving to another state is a tough nut to crack. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks in advance.
By Flash
Date 01-28-2008 10:49
Hi All
yeh the attitudes of youth have changed here in Australia too
but so has the employers loyality to their workers
labour hire companies and the culture they have promoted has alot to do with the lack of so called unmotivated and disinterested youth
in my opinion it is all about interest and support, I feel that most youth if supported and are shown a genuine interest in will succeed
I have worked in the field of welding for 20 years, 10 of which has been in welding education
When people come out of a pre voc course and go to a job, most times they can expect to get the crap jobs on crap pay, they pay for their own schooling and get little on the job training
in years gone by you took on a job expecting to stay their for a life time and when you started you worked along side a craftsman, now they know that if the work runs out so does their employment, and they have to produce a return from day one
that is if they are even employed by the company and not the labour hire mob that takes a 20% cut of their wage
I am sure that sum of the blame may lay with some of the youth, but I am also sure that if youth were geniunely supported, trained and valued and not treated like a commodity their outlook would be different
my opinion for what it is worth
R
Flash
www.technoweld.com.au
HR/CR
Hi I'm new to the site and I need two questions anwsered please.
Can you weld Cold roll steel to Hr steel with no problems? If so are there problems, and if not, Why?
Also can someone tell me if HR is cheaper than CR.
Is there a web site that can give me this info.
I would Appreciate this very much.
Cliff
whplsh_llc@yahoo.com
Cliff: Hot roled steel and cold rolled steel are the same, other than the finish sizing being done hot or cold, IF THE STEELS ARE THE SAME ALLOY. Hot or cold rolled doesn't tell the whole story. If they are both low in carbon & alloys You can weld them without extra precautions. Just about any metal can be welded to just about any metal with the proper process. Cold rolled costs more than hot rolled of the same alloy due to the pickling and cold finish rolling being seperate operations, while hot rolled can be finished to size while still hot.
I'm sure you'll do this anyway,but testing the guys will tell the tale.I ran a test shop years ago, and would get guys with all this documentation saying they were journeyman pipewelders in three different processes,but when you would test them,you would look-them-out on a visual.
Alot of people will say they can weld,but welding on your daddy's tractor,and being a professional welder are two totally different things.
Hello Ringo, I realize this is a bit off from the original topic of this thread, but you have brought up some issues that are faced by many employers as they try to find qualified people to do their work. In my area many of the employers don't even consider posting their job opportunities with the Career and Employment Services of the state. This is mainly due to some of the screening practices that are employed to classify individuals for their job qualifications, in many cases as you said, an individual that has struck an arc in their uncles garage considers themselves to be qualified to apply for a welding position. The other consideration here can be looked at from the resources that perspective employers have to expend to go through a hiring process. They spend countless hours screening resumes, conducting interviews, and in a lot of cases paying for drug testing and weld testing. When it's all said and done many will screen 50 or more applicants, find 4 or 5 who are actually qualified and end up hiring 2 or 3 of that group. So in many instances people come to be hired by word of mouth of the employees within a given company and with much better results. Many times the will contact our school and check to see if we have any promising prospects in our programs who are ready for the working world. The key for placing students into real world working jobs is to reach understanding with these companies of the capabilities and limitations that these students posess, if they're looking for a hand that has all of the relevant experience of someone who has been in the trade, a student probably won't fit the bill, if they're willing to work with our students understanding that they possess reasonably good welding skills but lack the actual application of these skills then we usually have some pretty successful placements. As you also said, a stack of certifications doesn't always guarantee that the skills are up to par, similar to a lot of other things, you will have those that are stellar performers and you will have those that just barely meet the minimum requirements for those certs. The testing and performance examples will be the true test of skill and qualification. Sorry for the rant. Best regards, Allan
I am a high school drop out. I dropped out, went to a testing school, and became a welder. That was 18 years ago.
I know that nobody here want's to hear any bragging - so I'm not.
It's a simple fact that because I persevered and worked my a++ off, I now make the kind of money i told myself that one day I would - 18 years ago.
If you have good work ethic and some street smarts you will excell at whatever you put your mind to. Your dad said it, my dad said it, it's the truth.
So many people these days don't have a single clue what working hard really is. They don't know sacrifice, or integrity. They sell out to the highest bidder, that's their gameplan. When I was 14, I had a full time job and paid the rent. I may have lived on Ramen noodles, but I made it. If my dad had not physically showed me the reward for busting a**, I wouldn't be where I am - financial freedom.
I watch some of my good friends and how they raise their kids, and I'm horrified. No discipline, no give or take, no actual teaching going on. Just "give em what they want, so they shut up!"
I spose I was born a couple decades too late. I just don't agree with how a large percentage of my yearly tax goes to people who are born losers......?
That's my rant for the week, thanks for listening. See ya in a week.
