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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Vision Testing of Welders
- - By RBeldyk (**) Date 02-15-2008 15:07
Does any one do or have  the rquirement of having an annual vision tests of each  welder at your shop?  Experiences, ADA implications ...
Parent - By Mat (***) Date 02-15-2008 15:26
I'm blind as a bat, but prescription safety glasses nullify that...
Parent - By Bill M (***) Date 02-15-2008 15:27
We have a vision requirement here to be done annually here.  We were suprised to learn that our aging weld shop guys actually needed glasses!  We saw an overall improvement in weld quality after providing corrective safety glasses, and under the hood "cheaters" at no cost to the employees.

(We use - corrected or natural Near-Vision Acuity- Jager #2 measured at not less than 12 inches distance.)
Parent - By Ringo (***) Date 02-15-2008 15:28
We have annual vision tests for all inspectors.I'm in aerospace,so its a requirement
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-15-2008 15:33
We (I) had considered administering simple vision tests but never did anything with it. 
Basically, if someone is having a hard time making a good weld, our lead welder provides some TLC to correct the issue.  If the TLC doesn't "take" we might begin to suspect a vision problem.  Usually at that point, the person might acknowledge that he/she should be wearing corrective lenses.  We don't force them to get glasses, we do highly encourage that they do. 
There seems to be a difference of opinion as to what you can and cannot do as far as insisting that a person get his/her eyes tested. 
Parent - By OBEWAN (***) Date 02-15-2008 15:55
We are required to certify vision on an annual basis to comply with AWSD17.1 and MIL-1595.  There is no difference of opinion.  It is a requirement just like welder certification.  It is law.  People don't complain because we get free eyecare with the benefits plan.  I failed my vision test for inspection 2 years ago and had to get bi-focals.  We contract an outside consultant to come in and give the annual tests.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-15-2008 15:57
The only *requirement* for eye exams I know of is AWS D17.1

4.2.1 Physical Requirements
Welders and welding operators shall have vision acuity of 20/30
or better in either eye, and shall be able to read the Jeager
No. 2 Eye chart at 16 in. Natural or corrected vision may be
used to achieve eye test requirements. vision shall be tested
to these reqluirements at least every two years. In addition,
the fabricator may establish other reasonable and appropriate
physical requirements for welders and welding operators.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-15-2008 16:12
My experience is that when people hit their early 40s, they typically need corrective eyewear.

Most welding standards do not include a vision requirement for welders. Most military welding standards do require the welder to pass a visual acuity examination as part of the qualifications/certification process.

Many companies hesitate to require the welder to pass a visual acuity test and end up paying for numerous repairs because the older welders can no longer see as good as they did as young people. This is a case of false economy. The cost of the initial eye examination and the cost of corrective eyewear is a fraction of the cost of the weld repairs. Every one of my clients require the workers and anyone on the shop floor to wear safety glasses. What is the additional cost of a pair of prescription safety glasses? It is a fraction of the cost of the eye injuries and rejected welds of those welders that either don't wear the safety glasses or can't see what they're welding.

A good pair of precription safety glasses corrects two problems. The first being that the worker (welder or others) will be more likely to wear the prescription safety glasses if it helps them see better. The second is that it enables the welder (or others) see what they are working on more clearly and helps to prevent those errors whose root cause is that the worker can't see clearly. 

My theory is that a company will improve their profit margins by paying for the eye examinations and paying for the prescription safety glasses. Granted, someone will abuse the system, someone will break their glasses or forget them at home, but there are ways to address those problems through good management/administration policies.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By 63 Max (***) Date 02-15-2008 21:51
I'm 44 and just got glasses about 2 months ago. It was hard to learn to use the bi-focal under the hood so I had the company get cheater's for my hood and it was like someone turned on the lights. It was hard to believe how bad my site was. Wish I wouldn't of put it off as long as I did.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-15-2008 22:03
I have a pair of glasses just for welding. I find it very difficult (if not impossible) to weld with bifocals. The same is true with using the computer, I have a pair of glasses just for that, which is a bummer because I can't see anything further away than the computer screen!

I've worn glasses since about the sixth grade, so it is only natural for me. They are the first things to go on in the morning and the last things to come off at night. Anyone in a bikini is just a blur if I don't have my glasses on at the beach. Have you ever tried to swim with glasses?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By johnnyh (***) Date 02-15-2008 22:16
How are the beaches up there in New England?
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-17-2008 19:10
Cold, very cold at this time of year!

Al
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 02-15-2008 23:08
"Anyone in a bikini is just a blur if I don't have my glasses on at the beach"
Sometimes i wish i could just see a blur when  i see some of the gals in a bikini!
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 03-30-2008 09:10
i used to have twenty/ eight or six the doctor had never seen it such before so his charts did not indicate. even as a chattery boy all my relatives would take me hunting because i could see flocks of ducks/geese, game animals at many many miles more than any one else. as i get older i do realize i can see less at close distance but it is the way of the body. currently i have 20/15 or 20 /10 depends on the day and it is very cumbersome to me because i i used to have much better vision. although i do not like to admit it i think that yearly third party inspection of the vision quality of your welders is a very good idea.
as i am older now (41) i must admit that i envy the fresh from the factory young and their abilities and how i did not respect those abilities when i possessed them but i think that that is the theme for many a book. this thread has inspired me against my will to look into a cheater. i will try one or two and see what happens.
humbled yet again
darren
p.s. forced humility seems to be a theme in life
Parent - By Sourdough (****) Date 03-30-2008 21:47
That's funny. I too was put out in front on bear or moose hunts.

I am so paranoid of ruining my eyes in this profession. I know a guy that pipelined for years and years that is deaf and almost blind. I'm sure it was from not always being protected, but hey it happens.

And if you protect your eyes and ears, you could easily die of emphazema(sp?). I don't think it would be any fun dragging around an oxygen tank on a job site.

Then if you don't go deaf and blind, and get emphazema, well ....being around constant current all your life could give you a bad ticker. Then you couldn't weld because your pacemaker might fail.

But then, if you weren't affected by any of these things you could be burned in a flash fire caused by lightning and crash your truck on the way to the hospital like me last year...............lol

(true story) craigdailypress.com :keywords - flash fire
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 02-15-2008 23:17
To my knowledge there is no criteria in the codes that I have delt with in the past that require vision testing and records, but about 4 years ago I worked for a company that implimented a vision plan for the welding shop. The company set it up to where the employee paid a total of ten dollars for any perscription eye wear and as a company, not per any code, made it manditory for the welders to take the test for free and as stated, paid ten dollars, if neccessary, towards perscription eyewear. Our discontinuity rate dropped dramaticly, excuse my spelling, due to this fact. This made it a win win situation.  It may or may not be manditory per code, but as a company that is quality and customer oreintated, it was invaluable. If you cant see you cant weld period!!! Same goes for inspection. Ask AWS.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-16-2008 04:37
I have been wearing glases since grade school. I always got the safety thickness tempered glass lenses. When I worked for Dana corp. We got prescription safety glasses every 2 years at no cost, glass lenses. Are You folks using glass or plastic lenses, and how do they hold up? My glass lenses are all pitted from using the bench grinder without a face shield, but they don't scratch from cleaning with anything that is handy.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 02-16-2008 13:52
I do not work there anymore, but if I rememember correctly they were glass. We did not have a problem with the lenses pitting due to the fact that it was required to wear a face shield in addition to the ANSI approved safety glasses when grinding.
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 03-29-2008 04:01
Intresting topic, i know of one time where it might have helped if the company i worked for if they had an eye test as part of the qualification process...

I started working at a shop with a fellow on the same day, both of us welders. Within a week i was moved to a diffrent welding area and the fellow i was working with got moved to the parts washing area because he couldent keep up.
A few months later he got to try welding again and he promptly earned the nick name "error" ( a play on his name which i will leave out ) because he welded a simple sub assembly WITHOUT sheilding gas (we were running GMAW in the shop) and didnt know that anything was wrong until he was 90% done with it...
He spent the next 2 days trying to repair it and in the end it was junked and he went back to washing parts and helping the painters.

In passing one day i noticed he had glasses on, and come to find out, the kid was nearly blind and he DIDNT know because he had never taken an eye exam.

Would it have helped if the company had eye tests? mabey, mabey not... the kid wasnt the swiftest welder, but who knows. It might have saved the company a few bucks...

Been wearing glasses scence i could walk and ive always liked the plastic lenses because i have bad luck with glass.

-Clif
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-30-2008 04:41
Good point, if He could see He might have been a better welder. The first winter I cruised the Bahamas on My sailboat I didn't do so well spear fishing. The next year I had a prescription lens dive mask. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 03-30-2008 05:26
Dave where are you from? cruise the Bahamas man always wanted to do that on a sailboat
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-30-2008 05:34
Chris, I am from Pensylvania. Ther is not much sailing to be had here, and like the tourism adds say: "It's Better in the Bahamas". That was a good period in My life, from age 32 to 44. I don't regret walking away from a good job to do it.
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 03-30-2008 17:21
sweet good for you I'm thinking the same thing right now I'm ready to start living
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 03-30-2008 13:17
Our safety glasses use polycarbonate lenses.  There are several levels of scratch protection available. Naturally the company pays only for the lowest level of scratch protection.
By the end of the 12 month replacement period, mine are scratched up.
We too are required to wear a face shield but the glasses still get grit on them.

Griff
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-31-2008 03:38
I've worn glasses since grade school as well. I was one happy dude when I got my first pair of glasses and I could see the black board once again.

I've always worn safety glasses, cutting goggles, welding hood, or grinding shield during my career as a welded, yet my glasses were replaced yearly because of pits and scratches from grinding and welding. I always thought that it was silly not to wear protective eyewear considering all the abuse and punishment my lenses took. Had it not been for the lenses, that material would have surely been in my eyes. Even with the eye wear, it was common to visit the optometrist occasionally to have something removed from the eye.

Now, if I only had been as faithful to my hearing? "What did you say?"

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 04-01-2008 06:01
HUH???  lol

Same as said before D17.1 , only cert I ever seen where the vision acuity test was a requirement....we go to the limit and test every two years.
Parent - - By Mat (***) Date 04-01-2008 06:41 Edited 04-01-2008 06:46
I can see without my glasses, but only about 12" in front of my face clearly.  I've worn glasses since grade 3.  I use prescription safety glasses at work and usually have to replace the lenses every year or so.  Godforbid a hunk of slag melts into them, in which case, it's twice a year.  I'll never get in trouble for not wearing them, to say the least!  Pretty soon here, I'll need a new pair.  little pits in the coating, the odd scratch here and there.  I don't really notice it until I put on my daily-wears and the world is a whole lot clearer (I can see clearly now?)

IMO, contact lenses?  I despise contact lenses...
Parent - - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 04-01-2008 23:36
Contact lenses, a good idea for anyone not a welder...
hearing horror stories about how they can be fried to your eyeball by the UV was enough to keep me from getting them.
I know welders who wear them and i always shudder when i think about having to have it cut off your eye... no fun there...
Parent - - By hurricunning (*) Date 04-02-2008 05:59
I wear Contact Lenses and have worked with them for almost 10 years. As relayed to me by my Optometrist - "Welding contact lenses to your eyeball via Arc Welding is complete Urban Legend."  I am much better off wearing contact lenses in the workplace rather than prescription eyeglasses.  If the UV and IR rays from a Welding Arc have fused the lens to your eye then you have many more serious problems to be concerned about.  Contact Lens use in the workplace is and has been accepted in the workplace by OSHA in the US, WCB and CCOHS in Canada, and many more health governing bodies.  Even the AWS condones the practice!  Individual company policy is another matter though...

From a recent study at the University of Toronto:
"Current evidence indicates that the use of contact lenses in the workplace, on the whole, does not place the wearer at additional risk of eye injury. Situations in which the use of contact lenses have minimized or prevented injury far exceed those in which they might have increased or exacerbated injury. This has been attributed to some obvious advantages related to the use of contact lenses, including increased visual acuity and better fit of protective eyewear than with eyeglasses. Furthermore, concerns associated with an increased risk of eye injury due to chemical splash or the absorption and retention of gases and vapours by the contact lens materials have not been supported by scientific evidence or human experience. Although there are some chemicals which interact adversely with contact lens materials, there have been many more instances where the contact lenses have been shown to provide a barrier to chemicals.

Based on existing evidence, it is reasonable to allow the use of contact lenses in chemical work environments. Contact lenses are not protective devices, and must be used only in conjunction with appropriate protective eyewear in eye hazard areas."

From an Alberta Industry publication:
"Despite the popularity of contact lenses, there has been resistance to allowing their use in certain industrial settings. Perhaps some of this resistance can be attributed to not wanting to try anything new in high hazard settings. However, various scare stories about the hazards of contact lenses in the workplace have occurred from time to time. In one story, workers supposedly had their contact lenses "welded" to their corneas by electric or welding arcs, causing blindness. It is not possible for such an event to occur; it would require the violation of basic laws of physics, as experts in the field of vision care have shown."

From an OSHA publication:
"If properly protected in accordance with the OSHA Standards applicable to eye protection (ANSI Z87.1-1968) during the welding operation the use of contact lenses is acceptable."

http://files.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-12.PDF
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=19050
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/prevention/contact_len.html
http://employment.alberta.ca/documents/WHS/WHS-PUB_mg001.pdf
http://www.ehs.utoronto.ca/Assets/ehs3/documents/EyeandFacewearStd2004.pdf.pdf
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/cornea.asp
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 04-02-2008 09:49
hurricunning

kick butt response there man.....I think the urban legend revolves around old style hard contacts and a lack of moisture in the eyeball.....I could be wrong here but i believe there were a very very few cases involving electrical workers (lineman) and welders at the inception of contacts that involved the work conditions drying the surface between the eye and the contact that involved physical damage to the eyeball.  These were very isolated specific cases and they are also pretty old.  Far as I know.... I completely agree with you....modern contacts are perfectly safe to use with the care of an optometrist.

Best regards
Tommy
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-02-2008 11:29
I believe it is important to emphasize that contact lenses are not a substitute for safety glasses or goggles in the work place. While they improve the wearer's visual acuity (in comparison to wearing no corrective eye-wear), they do very little if anything to protect the eye from flying fragments, spatter, UV, or high heat.

Early contact lenses made of glass or hard plastic did not conform to the curvature of the eye and did not allow moisture to wick in to keep the eye moist. To prevent the eye from drying, the length of time they could be worn was limited to prevent damage to the cornea. It didn't have as much to do with the work performed as it did to the length of time the lenses were worn. The optometrist would warn you not to sleep with the lenses on because of the issues. The new lenses allow moisture to wick into them and does a good job of eliminating the problem.

Personally, I stick with the old standby, "safety glasses". The do a good job of protecting my eyes, less opportunity to introduce harmful bacteria or dirt into the eye because I don't insert anything into or on to the eye. When they get scratched or damaged, they are easily replaced.

Best regards - Al 
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 04-02-2008 12:02
One thing to keep in mind about wearing contacts when welding...You still need PPE, but.... Stop and think on this for a minute, next time you have your hood down and you're welding, count how many times you blink your eyes (blinks per minute) and then time yourself during a time where you aren't welding.

I'm gonna jump out on a limb here and say that you will find yourself not blinking(which is how moisture is distributed across your eye) nearly as much or maybe not at all while your staring at the puddle for the entire length of your weld.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-02-2008 12:42
Gentlemen,
  These are all very good points. I personaly do not need visual correction, so I have no first hand experience with contact lenses. When asked in our shop I will tell the welders that they should consult thier optomitrist about wearing contacts when welding and that if recomended to go ahead. But the contacts will not take the place of any other required PPE.
Parent - By Plasma-Brain (**) Date 04-03-2008 02:48 Edited 04-03-2008 02:51
Thank you for the in depth response and helping to remove another urban legend from my memory. :)
I stand corrected as to UV "welding" them to the eye, I never gave it much thought scene I never wanted to wear them anyways... I just don't like things in or on my eyeball and the idea of having to poke my eye daily to put them in was never appealing to me... despite the benefits.

My Dad is a chemist and he was never allowed to wear contacts because of the danger of getting chemicals trapped under them if you were splashed in the face. Granted, were welders not chemists... but we still "play" with enough chemicals (anti spatter, pickling/passivating solutions, paints, degreasers) that it never seemed like a good idea to wear them. With the proper PPE and usage procediures im sure its not that big of a concern... but its still enough for me.

That's my reason for not wanting to wear them in a shop, and it's nice to know that I don't have to worry about my friends getting them stuck to their eyes.

Thanks again,
-Clif
Parent - By jwfolk Date 04-07-2008 15:41
Jaeger 1 on an annual basis.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Vision Testing of Welders

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