simplified spiral staircase example

By johnnyh (***)

Date 02-21-2008 19:00

That looks like my kind of fabrication class. Very neat!

By mountainman (***)

Date 02-21-2008 19:52

thanks for sharing so much that you do, that looks like a great way to show the ins and outs of spirals..bravo!

JJ

By cmays

Date 02-22-2008 00:27

I love it! Done a few of these things and as you know they can get kind of complex. Allan, do you mind if I save your pics for future examples?

By aevald

Date 02-22-2008 03:18

Hello cmays, anything that I post on here is fair game to use. I always hope that my posts might spark others to include alternative possibilities, that's the way that I get to learn more. I also enjoy discussions of different approaches, helps to get my grey matter to consider alternatives and see other possibilities for accomplishing similar things in alternative manners. Regards, Allan

By MDG Custom Weld (***)

Date 02-22-2008 14:20

Allen, I wish your class was closer so I could send my kids to you. I like to think we do some complex stuff in our shop, but many of your tricks show we sometimes do things the hard way. Keep up the good work with today's youth, true craftsman like yourself are few and far between in the educational system, and even more rare that you teach actual real life challenges in fabrication. Most local vocational and secondary education just teach these kids how to weld and read a print, and they don't really teach actual indepth fabrication skills.
Hats off to you and all of your efforts!

By aevald

Date 02-22-2008 15:08

Mark, many thanks for the encouragement and the compliment. I don't however, have a good allotment of time to work with our students to really get in-depth with many of the fabrication methods that are in use out there. In the fabrication class we spend a lot of time making heavy craft paper mock-ups and cut-outs to simulate real life challenges, unfortunately, due to shortages of materials and machinery I can't often actually layout, shear, and form or fit, tack, and weld alot of the many types of things that our students will see when they enter the work force. I do try to give demonstrations of machinery set-ups with regard to fixturing and use of stops, pressbrake set-ups and operations, sheet or plate rolling, and any other type of basic shop practice. For the students that are a little further along in the program we consider and allow them to build projects as long as the length of completion and size can be accomodated at our facility. I also stress to them that their mastery of many of the practices that they are practicing in the fabrication class isn't necessarily required, but more importantly an understanding of the basics related to the many practices is key. I am most interested in their abilities, when they see them in the real world, that will allow them to follow what the journeyman or other individuals that they will be working with are doing. I tell them that those individuals will likely recognize that they have potential and will be more willing to work with them to learn and retain good skills and ethics, I also stress avoiding the know-it-all type approach, as many who leave our programs are competent welders with regard to processes but they completely lack the actual application skills that they will run into when they actually hit the field or a shop. Perception is a good part of success, so I feel this is important for folks who are entering the trade. Best regards, Allan

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 02-23-2008 04:38

Allan, I too want to compliment You on what You show here and on what You are teaching to Your students. I recently had a good discussion with one of the Auto shop teachers from the VoTec I wen to. [I did a lot of machine work for Him when in school, as I was in the machine shop and the teachers helped each other out with things] He mentioned that He wanted to get a program going where the top 3 students from each of the 2 auto shops would be exposed to more than the general scope of the shop covered, but they could never get it going. Unfortunatly a high school program ends up being somewhat limited in scope because of time constraints, and the differing abilities of the students. What type of school do you teach at?

By aevald

Date 02-23-2008 06:14

Hello Dave, I teach at a community college. I don't envy the folks who are teaching at highschools, many times they seem to be the dumping grounds for many of the students that aren't viewed as able to be successful in the academic world or tend to have behavioral problems, in some instances this truly is the case, in others it is what the students themselves are encouraged to believe simply because others in the high school system aren't willing to help out or follow through or offer the necessary encouragement. Also, many of them take the vocational classes in high school because they figure it is an easy grade. I don't mean to say this is always the case, but often it is. High school programs are also made up of a captive group in a lot of instances, the students are told that they will be taking these classes and they don't have a choice, so many times they don't take advantage of the opportunity,realize the value of it at the time, or don't have a true interest.
For the most part my students are there because they want to be, in a few cases there are individuals that are there because they have found a way to work the system and really don't have a genuinine interest in being successful or it is the only way to continue to receive living assistance since the schooling is a requirement of the total aid package. Fortunately this isn't the norm. In yet other instances the students might start out without the drive, but after being there a while they come to appreciate what their education can bring to them so they buckle down and put in the effort and go on to be successful. I also have the benefit of a diverse grouping of students, at times I have had students as young as 13, the oldest probably in the high 80's, these age differences bring all sorts of different dynamics into the shop, having women and men together as well adds many different facets to the mix. The young tend to learn from the old, the older tend to show more enthusiasm as a result of having the younger ones to take on for mentoring. I get paid to sit back and referee and do a bit of guiding and skill building, I feel very fortunate to see all of the positive results. I could really go on for quite a bit of time discussing this, teaching for the sake of teaching is a great job, sometimes I get a bit discouraged with the politics of it, but then I get to share a moment of success with a present or past student and it makes it all worthwhile. Thank you Dave, I have enjoyed the many contributions that you bring to the forum and your positive outlook on life. Best regards, Allan

By jon20013 (*****)

Date 02-23-2008 06:25

Allan, you are the MAN!!!! Way cool stuff!!!! I sure wish you would have been MY instructor when I was learning welding! Great stuff, teaching kids layout as well! Very cool!

By 803056

Date 02-23-2008 21:31

Nice, very nice!

Best regards - Al

By swsweld (****)

Date 02-26-2008 03:49

Hello Allan, thanks for the great pics and methods on the spiral staircase. I've never built one. I have installed a few large prefabbed spiral stairs in colleges and high schools and my hat goes off to anyone smart enough to design and build one.

With your diplomacy and intelligence I wish you were running for president :) I'd vote for you.

By aevald

Date 02-26-2008 04:06

Hello Tim, thanks for the encouragement and compliments........ As to the presidency thing..... they couldn't pay me enough to take that one on!!!!!!!! Best regards, Allan

By IAwelder Date 02-26-2008 20:33

What about the hand railing?

By aevald

Date 02-26-2008 21:28

Hello IAwelder, that'll be next. I did think about including some, however it is a bit more difficult to do the rail than it is to actually do the stair itself. Especially if it is done with pipe and is segmented. If you have ever been involved with the manufacture of screw conveyors or augers of any sort, they share a similar fabrication regimen to spiral staircase handrailing. The layout and engineering procedures are a bit more involved though. Simple description goes something like this: you start out with a rolled ring of pipe or flat bar of an engineered diameter that is proportionally greater than the finished diameter of the stair, anchor one end and pull the other end upwards, when this spiral has attained the pitch to match the stair, the diameter of it will also match the O.D. of the stair. Highly simplified and possibly a bit difficult to understand without seeing it done, but basically what happens. At some point I will try to come up with something to illustrate this. Best regards, aevald

By mountainman (***)

Date 02-27-2008 16:35

we actually use wrenches to helix the pipe as we roll it, granted we typically "eyeballit" for this process, but all the fine tuning is done while fitting it to the uprights. they turn out very nicely when they are done....the reason we do it this way is it is very easy to get kinks in the railing when we tried pulling and forcing to get the helix in it from a regularly rolled piece.

regards,
JJ

By aevald

Date 02-27-2008 17:39

Hello mountainman, I take it that you are doing in-house rolling and forming then? Many of the places that I have had to work with these, the rolling was done by a sub and they didn't put the helix in it so we had to do it at the shop ourselves. I can also relate to the fine-tuning and eye-balling that you referred to. Would love to see some pictures if you could, or are allowed to. Thanks once again. Best regards, Allan

By mountainman (***)

Date 02-27-2008 18:15

Allan, i'm very computer retarded but i'll try and post some pics. yes, we do the rolling in house but sometimes it's more economical to have various items done out of house. actually some of the bigger roll shops can now roll some of the larger items such as MC18x42.7 with the helix already in it! (for rad. stairways) and i'm sure i don't have to tell you how pleased i am that that can be done out of house. what a godsend!

JJ

By aevald

Date 02-27-2008 19:06

Hello again mountainman, there is an outfit in the Portland, Ore. area that is a big-time processor of structural metal shapes. Google: Marks Metal Technology, they have some really terrific pictures of wide-flange, channel, and various other shapes that they have rolled, spiralled, and fabricated. Many years ago I worked for them between layoffs from my regular employer at the time. Back then they weren't quite as well equipped as now. I know you will be able to appreciate the items that they show on their site. Thanks for the response and best regards, Allan

By Wrench Tech (**)

Date 02-28-2008 02:33

Just beautiful! Looking forward to the railings.

By RioCampo (***)

Date 02-29-2008 03:08

very nice!

By Jeffrey Grady (***)

Date 03-12-2008 05:44

Hello Allan!
Just got to this post. WOW! I can say that if it was possible, I would pull up out of here and come to Washington, to learn from You at Your College. A picture being worth a thousand words is right! I can acctually see how the proccess is done. Your students are very Blessed to have You as their Instructor.
Jeffrey