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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / GTAW Mild Steel Using Ar/He Shield Gas?
- - By jd369 (**) Date 02-22-2008 11:55
As the title says, are there any issues or concerns in using an argon(25%) / helium(75%) to tig weld mild steel? I have a smaller tig welder (175 square wave) and would like the extra heat from this gas?
Thank You
JD369
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 02-22-2008 13:24
It works fine, just a little costly.  The He mix will generate a bit more arc heat and give you good welds with the limited current that your machine has.  It might be necessary to go with a larger tungsten than the stock 3/32.  Get a 1/8 collet, body, and tungsten and it will help you at the higher amperages.  I would also expect that it's an air cooled torch, so prolonged welding at high amps will generate a lot of heat and it might be necessary to let it cool off now and then.
Parent - - By jd369 (**) Date 02-22-2008 14:12
Thanks MDG
  Thanks for the response, I do have the 1/8 collet and the adapter to run a water cooled torch (HW20) so I should be ok on that front.
   I was always told it was a "no no" to use a helium/argon mix for GTAW mild steel but wasn't sure of the reason why, if any at all. It sounds like I'll be fine then and it was just mis-information I had recieved in the past. I usually use this mix for thicker aluminum but a job recently came up that my machine cannot handle for mild steel, I'm hoping this mix will take care of it.
Kindest Regards
JD369
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-22-2008 14:58
MDG is right... Both gasses are inert so nothing changes in the metal.

If you can afford it there is no problem.

Do let us know if it gives the extra umph you need.  I'm curious.
Parent - - By jd369 (**) Date 02-22-2008 15:07
Thanks, I will try using it tonight and I'll post up the results on this thread then.
Regards
JD369
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 02-22-2008 15:27
I was thinking that you would only really need this on heavy aluminum, but as you stated on a heavy steel job it will also help.  I would ask the question, why tig weld it if you need that much current?  Maybe it's required by the customer, or maybe you're using the only welding equipment you have available.  Couldn't GMAW Spray would give you what you need at a much faster rate?
Parent - - By jd369 (**) Date 02-22-2008 19:45 Edited 02-22-2008 19:48
Hello MDG
  The main process is actually GMAW spray transfer using an 0.035" hard wire ER70S-6 with a 95/5 argon co2 shield gas.
  The weld is a v-groove. It is a round solid mild steel bar being welded to another mild steel bar the same. The O.D. of both bars is 1 3/8" . One bar has a machined dowel on it that is 3/8" in diameter with the bevel coming up to the OD to form that half of the v-prep. The mating part has a 3/8" diameter hole in it that the dowel is inserted into with the other half of the v-prep. The v-prep works out to a 60 degree angle. I leave a 1/8" root opening to allow pentration into the dowel. I use the GTAW process to tack weld to hold position, the tacks are small as to not disturb the GMAW root pass, the tacks are completely consumed not causing any LOF. I have it all set up on a rotator and perform a root pass, filler pass then split the cap into two passes (half overlap). This works very well and has been passing x-ray without any problems.
  The need for the tig with helium comes in to play to remove any defects. The surface of the welds are polished flush to the OD. Should there be any porosity or undercutting I need to fill these in, the material is cold by this point and I will blow the fuses in my shop if I push the little square wave too hard for too long. I prefer to do the re-work with the tig as it allows for a minimal build up for polishing. The GMAW doesn't push the limits of the fuses as the weld is only on for a short period of time, while the tig may be going for awhile on a severe case. I'm also currently reworking all the pieces from a previous vendor that are filled with porosity, so lots of grinding and tig welding.
  If the fuses were in my shop I would be fine, but they are located in a locked room for the units I rent from. if I blow the fuses in the mioddle of the night I'm SOL until the next day......I can't afford to take this risk so I would like to make up for my shops short comings by the use of the helium gas.
Thanks for all the help.
Regards
JD369
P.s. Maybe once this job this job is in full production I'll get a bigger shop.
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 02-22-2008 22:23
Hay JD, I totally understand the small shop shortcomings.  We started (and still are) small.  I had a square wave 175 for our first shop tig welder.  Even had a SP-135 as the main mig welder for the first few months.  Just do good work, and the cards will fall right!
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-23-2008 04:20
Some years back I had a discussion with a guy who had a local fab shop about the capacity of His [at that time fairly new on the market] Miller Econo-TIG. He was forced to use it on a job that He normally did with a Hobart 300 that was down with a blown board. The job was a pharmacutical drum, stainless steel. He was able to do it with the small machine only because He had some Hellium/Argon mix on hand. The point being that on a job where the machine is marginal, it can make a difference.
Parent - By jd369 (**) Date 02-25-2008 15:18
I used the argon/ helium mix on the mild steel over the weekend and it worked fine. Doesn't seem to generate as much noticeable heat on the steel as it seems to on the aluminum by comparison but it definitley helped with the job. I noticed a bit more soot using this gas, the argon doesn't give any and it did tend to want to erode the very tip of the tungsten a bit but everything worked fine.
Thanks for all the help
Regards
JD369
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 02-25-2008 18:46
You were definetly misinformed.  TIG or Heliarc got it's name from using straight helium gas back in the day to weld just about whatever you wanted.  We've since developed more cost effective ways to weld things.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / GTAW Mild Steel Using Ar/He Shield Gas?

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