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Up Topic Welders and Inspectors / Education & Training / V-Butt troubles
- - By JNEcnh Date 02-29-2008 06:00
Hi there..
so, my deal is that I'm in a canadian high school welding class, last semester, and am having trouble on two welds that I need to complete to get into the trade as a level one apprentice. the welds I am having trouble with are a 6010 Horizantal v-butt with aprox. 3/32'' lands... I can seem to get good penetration on the root pass, but the face pass always has somewhat of an undercut.. and when I bend the weld in the press, both sides snap or crack. Is there any way to prevent this from happening? I thought it might be cooling too quickly, but even when I cooled it slowly it still had a simmilar effect in the press. Also, one that might seem easier, but has totally been bumming me out is a 6010 root, 7018 hot/face flat position v-butt with about the same 3/32'' lands. The root pass seems to fill in good, but it cracks along the side of the weld after it is ground and then bent in the press.. it won't tie into the base metal solid. On that same weld, the face never seems to look too bad, but it usauly cracks aswell... I've only been welding a couple years, and have done other bend tests, but these two are buggin me out... :S
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 02-29-2008 13:13
Look at your base metal composition and make sure it is plain carbon steel and also be sure to preheat your base metal to at least 60 deg F. If that is not the problem I am at a loss.

Try one with a longitudinal root bend and see what it does.

Gerald Austin

http://weldingdata.com/
Parent - - By JNEcnh Date 02-29-2008 22:17
Thanks for the ideas, I'll try em out :)
Parent - - By medicinehawk01 (**) Date 03-02-2008 17:15
It could also be you are (inadvertently) long-arcing and you don't realize it. To me, regardless of what root opening or land size you use, a fully penetrated root weld or the face side of a vee groove shouldn't fail, IF everything was done in accordence with the WPS and materials used are also correct. Check the parameters: electrode specification, travel progression, amps- min-max, etc. So , assuming everything is welded in accordance with the WPS then what else can we look at? How about technique? If we look at the root failure first, you need to examine very throroughly where the weld cracked. Was it right in the middle of the weld or was it more to the edge side where it ties into the base metal? IF it was right in the middle of the weld (assuming it looked alright before cutting and preping it for bending), then you would have to be long arcing and causing the the deposited metal (from the 6010) to become overly brittle due to improper arc length. IF it was on the edge or toe of the weld, then probably your rod angle was off and perhaps you where long arcing on that particular edge of metal. So in the horizontal weld and flat welds you need a 10-15 degree rod angle in the direction of travel and no more then 5-15 degrees  to perpendicular where (if anything) the rod should be slightly A-B-O-V-E the horizontal plane. Interesting that you have issues in the flat & horizontal positions since they are both similar in how they are welded. Transfer data on  how you do the horizontal weld to data on the flat weld and you'll see how much bead placement is identical.
With the face bends, you'll really have to do the same thing as far as determining where exactly the weld is cracking/failing. Since we are not physically there to see your test specimens then you'll have to be really throrough as to where the actual issue is. Does the crack (face bend) look like the root cracks??? OR are they somehow different? Usually 7018 laid down properly no matter what position...........it doesn't crack. So, are you cleaning each and every pass completely???? IF you are then (and you are sure) then you must be long-arcing this face or cap weld. I find this hard to believe because you'd notice alot of spatter and basically your bead would look like crap. Welding in the flat & horizontal positions allows you to run your heat on the fill/cap passes higher than other positions like for 3/32 "_ 7018, I'd run 92-105 amps. YOU can tell whether it is enough by what the rod looks like as it burns down as the last 2 inches of rod should just start to turn red. If the last 6 inches of rod is turning red then ofcourse you are too hot. These things are stuff your instructor may or may not have told you, but now you know so be observant and soon everything will come together. Good luck with that.
Parent - - By JNEcnh Date 03-04-2008 06:31
Thanks for this, I found that my 7018 rods were not completely dried, someone dunked them in the water apparently and then stuck them back in the rod oven, and they dried enough not to be noticed, but I'd immagine that is why my cap cracked. As for the root pass, I did have a tendancy to position the rod a bit awkwardly, so I will pay carefull attention to its position next class.. thanks for the tips!
Parent - - By JNEcnh Date 03-12-2008 04:12
Passed it and now going to learn GTAW on alluminium. Starting tomorrow, it should be intense. The instructor showed us today and it was cool. Thanks again for the tips!
Parent - By medicinehawk01 (**) Date 03-12-2008 08:54
Congrats! You'll like aluminum GTAW.
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 03-12-2008 22:17
Sounds like an opportunity for the class to learn about rod control and storage...

Hg
Up Topic Welders and Inspectors / Education & Training / V-Butt troubles

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