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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Can you test a welder out of your garage if?
- - By Kix (****) Date 02-29-2008 14:59
Don't you have to be like an AWS accredited testing facility or something to do this?  How do you become this? If you have a nice set up in your garage with the material and whatever else you feel like providing could you become legal?  What does it take for someone to set something like this up out of there home?  I don't think it would be hard to compete with the local community college and their pricing.

Thanks, Ray C.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-29-2008 15:53 Edited 02-29-2008 15:56
Hello Ray, I could be wrong, but here goes. My understanding about AWS and testing goes something like this. As long as the testing procedure is followed, verified, and observed by an AWS CWE you can basically test anywhere, I have tested off the back of a truck on the jobsite. In that particular case the inspector gave me the test materials, I set-up and welded the coupons. He then took them somewhere and cut, finished, and bent them and informed me of my success. There are other testing bodies that require slightly different regimens. The WABO that is used in the state of Washington would be one of those examples. They do require the testing to be carried out at a certified testing site. They also require verifiable heat number documentation for test materials, certs for consumables, calibrated volt/amp meters to verify machine settings, thermometers in the rod ovens, and a number of other observed and verified items. In other words the testing done here can only be done at these facilities. At our school we are currently doing some industrial training for one of our local employers. They send their employees to the school to practice and upgrade their skills and when they are ready to test we have a CWE come in and observe, verify, and test their coupons and process the necessary paperwork for the employer. I am grandfathered in as a WABO examiner at our facility but do not have my CWI/CWE, thus I do handle the WABO testing here, but if we do any AWS, ASME, or other types of testing they are handled by an outside CWE. My new teaching partner has recently passed his CWI/CWE certification so it is likely that we will also handle those requirements inhouse.
     Personally, I have rather mixed feelings about the requirements for this sort of thing. I am also sure that many out there have feelings that go one way or the other and have very good reasoning for the way that they feel. Hope this has helped some and I'm sure that if I have stated any of this incorrectly there will be many folks to straighten me out. If that is the case I will welcome the learning. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 02-29-2008 16:15
When you say CWE are you saying one would have to be a certified welding educator to do any kind of testing.  By the sounds of things if you get your CWI and pay some extra cash you also get the title of CWE or something like that.  So does that mean if I pay the extra cash to have a CWE title as well as my CWI title I could test welders out of my garage that wanted to have a cert that I could provide?  I bump into welders all the time that need to renew a cert or just have one to take to a job interview.  If I could put a add in the phone book or something I could pay off these welders I'm looking into buying in no time.;-)
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-29-2008 16:40
Anyone can test and certify a welder unless there is a specific requirement for a CWI to be involved.

You can test and certify a welder to any welding standard or code unless there is a requirement in the code, standard, or purchase order that requires a CWI be involved. To my knowledge there are only a few state DOTs that require the welder to be tested and certified by a CWI, but usually the specific laboratory or company has to be approved as a testing agency by the DOT. It is not a universal requirement nor are welder's certifications approved simply based on the presence of a CWI stamp.

You can only obtain certification from the American Welding Society if you are tested by an AWS ATF.

To the best of my knowledge there is no requirement in any code or welding standard that states the welder has to be tested and certified by AWS. That isn't to say the AWS issued certification and inclusion in the AWS National Registry isn't recognized by several companies, but it isn't usually a requirement.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 02-29-2008 17:01
So if I give a guy a welding test with D1.1 requirements he is not AWS certified he is just certified to D1.1 code.  So I could legally say, "come on down and get D1.1 certified"  as long as I go by the testing requirements of the code. What is a ATF?
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-29-2008 17:03
Hello Al, I guess I have been the ostrich on this topic for many more years than I would care to admit. For whatever reason I was led to believe or "assumed"(that cardinal sin) that certification to AWS standards required a certified welding examiner, hence my interpretation of the CWI/CWE designation. If I read your post correctly that is not the case unless a particular contract requirement is in place requiring such a thing. I appreciate your commentary and look forward to any other specifics. Thanks and best regards, Allan
Parent - By g32141 (**) Date 03-02-2008 03:10
Keep in mind that when a welder shows up onsite he is going to have to pass a test for that job too.

The DOT makes them take a test on pipeline welds with the NDT method being used on that job. It's a mix of X-ray and AUT on this job. So they may pass one and then fail one using the same welder's test.

Just make sure you clean up real good after each pass. Don't keep your fitups too tight. If you have one that you might think is too tight pound some extra root into to.

Another tip is don't reach across the top where you can't see. If you can't see what you are welding don't weld it espescially if you are the bead or hot pass hand because you are only allowed 1 inch in the root and cap in 12 inches and 2 inches in the fills. The cap is treated the same as the root, ie. surface breaking defects.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-29-2008 16:56
Kix, I am sorry for the confusion, due to my ignorance, I am giving the CWE designation an apparent incorrect interpretation, I have thought of CWE as meaning Certified Welding Examiner. Now that I have read Al's response I will have to rethink many of my thoughts concerning this whole process. I will be reading and trying to correctly interpret this stuff possibly right along with you. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By mountainman (***) Date 02-29-2008 17:09
another thing to think about is it will actually be a small business, and with that a plethora of other things that should be considered, i'm only throwing this out for you to think about. i myself am not a business owner, but i'm sure there is quite a few things involved. one thing off the top of my head could be the possibility that your local jurisdiction or rules, laws, etc. may prohibit a business ran out of a residential garage. i don't know, but could be a possibility. or insurance? what if someone lobs off a finger with a grinder or hotsaw? just some food for thought. i do know that one has to hangem out there so to speak to be successful and thrive. good luck to you.

Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 02-29-2008 17:50
I am really just throwing stuff out there, I know it would have to be run like a small business and with that comes all kinds of mumbo jumbo.  I hope to someday have a house with a shop somewhat out of town where know one would ever bother me.  I'm just looking for possible routes to maybe follow someday if I get the kahona's up enough to go off on my own.  I've thought about starting up a training facility with the hope to maybe get as big as Hobart Institute one day.  Well, that would be anybodies goal right?;-)  I've also thought about pipe fabrication and other fab work.  After seeing this company called Weld All in Milwaukee and how he got started it makes a man dream.  The owner of Weld All in Milwaukee started out a farm hand for his dad and now can buy a $20,000 Safari hunting License that last like a week for one animal that he's not even guaranteed to see. lol
Parent - - By mountainman (***) Date 02-29-2008 18:05
i hear ya! reach for the stars, what else is there?

good luck,
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-29-2008 18:48
The AWS CWI is a credential that simply indicates that the holder has met the basic requirements of a welding inspector as determined by the AWS. There are two documents published by AWS relating to the CWI; one is B5.1 that describes what the qualification requirements are for a welding inspector (in AWS' opinion), the other is QC1 which describes how one becomes certified to the AWS standard.

AWS fabrication documents, i.e., codes and standards, do not require an individual to be a CWI to perform inspections or to qualify welders and procedures. Most of the AWS standards recognize the CWI/SCWI as one qualification found to be acceptable, but certification to CWB is also recognized. Interestingly, the AWS or CWB certification does not even have to be current and in the absence of that, a person qualified by education, training, and experience judged to be competent is acceptable to most AWS welding standards. In D1.1-2006 it is not defined who even judges the person to be competent.

Can you use your garage to test welders? Sure, but why would you want to? I go to the welder and test him using his equipment, his facilities, and his electricity. Why tie up your property and incur the expense and liability of someone getting hurt on your premise? I haven't maintained a welding booth or equipment in nearly twenty years. It is a money loser considering most welders would rather use equipment they are familiar with and the filler metal (by brand and manufacturer) they prefer.

I see the question posted questioning how much "do you charge to qualify a welder". One of the responses was from an individual that is associated with a public institution that is supported by tax dollars, i.e., your money. Should you, a small business, have to compete with a public institution on price? Can you afford to compete with publicly funded organizations that charge a fee to give welder's tests? Should a public institution be in the business of testing welders for a fee? Can you afford spend a day to witness a welder's test and a good portion of the second day cutting, preparing, and testing the test coupon for what amounts to $150/day and still stay in business? Can you afford to maintain a well stocked test facility for that amount of money and still support your family?

I'm straying from the original question.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By James Corbin (**) Date 03-01-2008 05:54 Edited 03-01-2008 23:27
I agree with Al and just add:
Check you contract documentation some may state cert testing must be done by an org. acceptable to the EOR Some states do have "State controlled Certification Programs" most states do not. And yes most contractors do test there own personal whether their personal were tested and passed before. Even a "weldor" has bad days.

Keep in mind when a weldor tests the "witness" is only stating the test met the conditions required by the code stated on the certification. It is not certifying that all welding the person certified does will be good, just that when under "ideal conditions" the weldor can do it.

I do list on the documentation the actual volts/amps, test WPS number along with the heat number of the test plate  (and keep this on file) I do list the electrode brand/type and size but do not keep the electrode manufactures typical electrode certification documents. I do witness the first pass (D1.1 - 4.19.1 #1 & #5) and will not do testing on plates/pipes I did not witness (I would consider this falsifying records) and I do state on the certification that "I" did witness it. 
Always CYA.

If you do make up your own certification documents place a disclaimer on the bottom such as:
We, the undersigned, certify that the statements in this record are correct and that the test welds were prepared, welded, and tested in accordance with the requirements of section 4, part C of ANSI / AWS D1.1 -2006   Structural Welding Code-Steel. This certification is not a performance guarantee and shall not be used as a replacement for a continuous weld inspection program by a Certified Welding Inspector.         

Try not to leave the reader of the cert asking questions by leaving out needed information. Place your contact information on the document so you could be contacted for verification. I have called to verify documents myself. Do list your credentials for doing the testing; some EORs (and CWIs) will not accept certifications that are not stamped by a CWI or PE.

Hope this helps                                                                                                         
Parent - - By jmdugan10 (*) Date 02-29-2008 18:54 Edited 02-29-2008 19:13
Here are the two cents of a CWI that came up through inspection so take it for what it's worth. ;)

The Certified Welding Educator Program (CWE) is geared for the welding professional specifically in the welding education field. This AWS certification confirms your ability, talent and knowledge to specifically direct and perform operations associated with welder training and classroom instruction. The CWI and CWE exams are identical; however the Part C: Code Book portion is not a requirement for the CWE certification. Both certifications (CWI and CWE) may be achieved simultaneously. It is mandatory that submit your credentials for the CWE.

     Teach full or part-time in a classroom environment.
     Hold a valid welder certificate.
     Written recommendation from your teaching supervisor attesting to your teaching qualifications and ability.
If you are a current SCWI, CWI or CAWI, and you meet the Certified Welding Educator criteria outlined above, no testing is required for the CWE certification.

A CWI can test welders to what ever code they have access to, however it does not mean they won't have to test at the job site they are going to.  In my "oponion" it is kind of fraudulent  to make a welder pay for a test that most likely wont be accepted by a job site.  There is nothing illegal about it!  It just seems like praying on welders that may not be as informed as others.  For example at the company I work for it doesn't matter what WPQ you bring with you.  YOU WILL TEST.

Then again...I've had the same idea to supplement my retirement savings. ;)
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-01-2008 15:39
I can see fraudulant in one respect, but not another. There are companies that want to see previous certifications, and or recent before they will give you the chance to test for them. In that for instance, it's a good thing if that welder has been out of it for a time that exceeds the program for the respective company, or is new to code welding and never held a cert before.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-29-2008 18:37 Edited 02-29-2008 18:45

I"m sorry I missed the beginning of this thread.

Here are a few important facts about Qualifying/Certifying welders in our neck of the woods;l

Wisconsin's building code requires any
structural steel welding in buildings to be
completed by a qualified welder. Every structural
steel welder must be properly registered and
carry a valid welder registration card issued by
the Department of Commerce.

These qualifications must be carried out by examiners "certified by the state"

Now if you are building widgets... Or farm equipment and your contract specifies D1.1  You certainly don't need a State Certified Examiner to qualify your welders..... But if you are making buildings and structures you probably do.

Here is a link to the data

It just happens that some of the Tech Colleges employ folks who are certified by the department of commerce and so they hold seminars and cert days on a regular schedule.

I know a few free agent examiners out there too...  :)

A free agent could get quite a bit done with a good wrap around bender and a range of dies for different thicknesses... The RT and Tensiles could be farmed out to Stork or some other big testing house if you were doing PQR's or other more advanced work.

More in PM
Parent - - By arrowside (**) Date 03-01-2008 15:07
I went on ebay to locate and ad that I saw on there a while ago, but it was gone. There was a guy offering WQR's on ebay. he mailed you the plates, you welded them and mailed them back. he then tested them. If you failed, he offered a re-try at 1/2 price. I bet that a lot of welders failed on their first attempt.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-01-2008 15:34
I can understand why that one went away. Without witnessing the test directly, there is no way to know if that person was the one who actually welded it, or if they welded within the bounds of the wps. That situation reeks of ethical violations and common sense violations to me.
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 03-02-2008 03:59
Actually,he gives you a print, you supply the plates!
Parent - - By jbndt (**) Date 03-02-2008 05:41
If you go to his site and read it through, he sends you every thing you NEED TO DO to get a finished test plate.
He includes a piece of paper that "the company" has to "sign-off" on stating that it was welded to the WPS provided.

All he is doing is collecting said "sign-off"/witness sheet(s), doing a visual, bending coupons and sending "certs" if they pass.
Perfectly legitimate per AWS d1.1 - (Mine's at the shop so I can't quote chapter and verse...)

How many test facilities do the same?

Joe Blow from BFH Steelfab brings in X number of test plates and wants them 'tested' per AWS d1.1.
He has photo ID for each welder and a match-mark to tie each plate to each welder and the possition they were welded in.
You do a visual, was it really done in 3-g or was it done 'flat'?  How about the 4-g?
X-ray or bend and if they pass you issue a 'cert'.

Instead of $150 each, (what the company I work for charges) he has a package deal.
A reasonable alternative if you need proof that you are a "certified welder".

Just my .05 cents (Adjusted for inflation.),

Parent - - By arrowside (**) Date 03-02-2008 12:54
I know what you're saying Jimmy, but that info is only on his site, and not in the ad. I also noticed that the 1/2 price on the re-try is gone. My personal opinion is still that it's bogus. To me, if a CWI doesn't witness the test, it's just not as valid as if one had. Just my opinion.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-02-2008 17:47
I abhor the practice of testing plates without witnessing the actual test if the laboratory is filling in and signing the test report as if they witnessed the actual welding test.

If the laboratory is providing a test report of the bend test results only, I see no problem. However, if they are providing paperwork that indicates what position, what electrode, what welder, etc., was used, it is fraudulent because they have no idea of what was done.

I will not test plates that I haven't been present to actually witness while they were welded. That's an ethics decision I made many years ago. I know that some companies will have several plates welded by the same welder. I know they will submit the plates to be tested under the names of several different welders. I've seen it done when I was a welder and I've seen plates welded in the flat submitted as being welded in the vertical or overhead. I've seen the laboratory reports, excuse me, I meant to say welder performance test reports come back from the testing laboratory completed and stamped. To me that is unethical and fraudulent.

It is still business as usual in this country, i.e., buyer beware. The owner that accepts WPTRs that indicate previous qualification has no idea whether the test was witnessed by a CWI or not unless the test report actually states the test was witnessed by the CWI. I would love to see a copy of this individual's paperwork to see how he is signing them. In my opinion, if he is doing anything more than indicating he performed the bend tests, he should be embarrassed and should be brought up on charges of unethical conduct in violation of QC1.

If anyone has copies of his paperwork, I would love to see it!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-02-2008 18:13

You can send bends tensiles etc to anyone you wish with the right background and knowledge to perform the work.
However; in the case your speaking of, it's the company that issues the cert, or should be, not the testing facility that took
the radiograph, or cut and bent it.
Section IX 2007
QW-201 Manufacturer's or Contractor's

It is permissible, however, to subcontract any or all of the
work of preparation of test metal for welding and subsequent
work on preparation of test specimens from the completed
weldment, performance of nondestructive
examination, and mechanical tests, provided the manufacturer
or contractor accepts the responsibility for any
such work

(a) The basic premises of responsibility in regard to
welding are contained within QW-103 and QW-301.2.
These paragraphs require that each manufacturer or contractor
(an assembler or an installer is to be included within
this premise) shall be responsible for conducting tests to
qualify the performance of welders and welding operators
in accordance with qualified Welding Procedure Specifications,
which his organization employs in the construction
of weldments built in accordance with the Code.

D1.1 2006 Qualification Responsibility. Each manufacturer
or Contractor shall be responsible for the qualification
of welders, welding operators and tack welders,
whether the qualification is conducted by the manufacturer,
Contractor, or an independent testing agency.

Bottom line, the manufacture/contractor bears responsibility for the certification of welders.

"You do a visual, was it really done in 3-g or was it done 'flat'?  How about the 4-g?
X-ray or bend and if they pass you issue a 'cert'"

that lab or person could tell you it passed the test that you asked them to perform, but
in no way does it release anyone from final responsibility for the qualification of their weldors.
The situation as presented in this thread strikes me as leaving the manufacture exposed if
they attempt to utilize this service.

My opinion for what it's worth,
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 03-03-2008 21:22
I looked at a lot of his recent feedback and none looked like anyhting I would of put for weld testing.  I wonder if anyone has used him on e-bay before?
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 03-06-2008 13:43
Ray, I'm a bit late in getting into this thread.

I have always considered "qualifying", and "certifying" as two different testing methods.  As Al mentioned earlier, any company or individual can qualify a welder to the AWS code of choice and they are certified by the company to weld to the code.  Should they decide to leave that company, they do not have a certificate that says they are AWS certified.  On the other hand an AWS Certified Welder Certificate needs to have welding performed and tested at an AWS accredited testing facility.  Then that facility submits the testing results to the AWS and the individual receives their AWS Certificate.  This is something that the person holds and can take with them wherever they go.

I have qualified many welders for many companies, but have never certified someone at an accredited testing facility.  Maybe I'm way out in left field on this since I have not dealt with it directly, but that's how I've always interpreted qualified vs. certified.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-06-2008 13:53
The welder can transfer his welder qualification/certifications if he is tested to AWS D1.1 and the new employer accepts the existing paperwork. Some employers will provide the welder with a copy of his "certification papers" if he/she is laid off so they can use them with the new employer. The testing agency does not have to be an AFT to test to AWS welding standards and codes.

As a third party inspector, I expect the welder to present his "papers" when they are requested at the beginning of the work. If he says the foreman has them, fine, but welding doesn't start until the paperwork is presented. Many welders in the New England area carry the welder certs with them at all times so they can have them cosigned as a means of demonstrating continuity.

The AWS issued certification is no more or no less valid than the paperwork issued by "Joe's Discount Testing". Many state DOTs will not accept AWS issued welder certifications because they don't meet their test requirements. Likewise, many will not accept "JDT's" paperwork for the same reasons.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-06-2008 14:38
Do you have an address, phone number, and contact for Joe's? I mean if its other than Joe. I'm always looking for additional outsourcing info.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-06-2008 15:55
Yes, as a matter of fact I do. It's here somewhere, I know if I just look a little longer I will find it! :)

Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 03-06-2008 14:09
What's the difference between the two pieces of paper?  If I have two guys come in off the streets, one with a Arcworks WQTR and a CWI stamp, and one with a AWS accredited WQTR or whatever, they would mean the same thing to me if it was the same test.  I would hire them both over a guy that had nothing.  I realize what you could get and that the CWI could cheat and the AWS witness would have to have everything right on the money or it's his butt.  Isn't it a CWI's duty to make sure he tests a welder to a certain code to a T also?  All either one of those two pieces of paper would tell me (the employer) is that I'm probably not going to waste any money on testing these guys again and getting them in my records for continuity tracking. 
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 03-06-2008 15:06
You'd be surprised to see how many welders hold a valid WABO card in my state, and when I retest them, its clear they cant weld.
I Test EVERY welder regardless of how many certs they present when applying for a job!

Every welder that comes in hold the WABO cert. and I'm lucky if 1 in 10 weld a good test plate.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 03-06-2008 15:08
Ray, in reality both of them mean the same thing, same qualifications to the same code.  It is the duty of the CWI to follow the code requirements and test/ qualify accordingly.  I don't agree with your last statement, I always re-test someone that shows up with WQTR just for our own tracking.  If we agree that company ABC has the same requirements that we do, and we are going to honor their papers at our shop without testing, we're putting ourselves at risk.  Outside certs are only worth the paper they are on, I mean look at this guy on E-bay, how legit is that?  I look at it from the viewpoint that if they have papers then the test should only take 1 shot just to verify and we're good to go, and if they don't cut it, it's obvious that their papers are questionable.

FYI: I don't know if this is the industry standard, but all of the companies that I contract CWI for will not give the individual their cert paperwork unless they request a copy of their personnel file.  The company feels that they paid to qualify someone for their shop and not for the shop down the road.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-06-2008 16:09
That begs the question of why the welders leave shop "A" to go to work for shop "B". Could it be for more money, better working conditions, or it might be a shorter commute?

I've heard one manager after another say they won't give the welder a copy of the "certs" because he will run over to the next shop for twenty five cents an hour more. If that's the only reason he is leaving the shop he is working in, it sounds to me like he's under paid.

I've told many clients that they are under paying their certified welders and the competition will "steal him away" if they don't get a raise that is comparable to what the area is paying. I have never had a welder that is being paid a reasonable wage leave a company. I have however seen many of them get raises from their employers to make their wages comparable to those in the area after I've talked to the owners or managers.

The same argument is heard about the CWI, the P.E., and any other profession. Equitable pay is all that most of us want. If we obtain a certification or license, we expect to be fairly compensated. Most workers do not leave an existing job unless there is a force driving them to do so. There is a natural fear of the unknown and leaving a "sure thing" is not an easy step for most people to make.

If an employer is afraid to give their welders a copy of their certifications, there is a reason; they are not paying a fair wage to start with and the competition is.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 03-06-2008 16:25
You do bring up a good point Al.  Most of the companies that I deal with have the same pay scale for all welders from trigger pulling hole pluggers to code certified welders.  I have tried to convey the importance to them, but they have the mind set that a welder is a welder.  It's sad when a welder does leave a shop to make another 25 or 50 cents/ hour, but that's the reality of it.  It's funny after a few years of working with many local shops you see the same guy qualifying at 3 companies over the course of that year or two only to find them back where they started, but now making a dollar more.  Most companies around here look to keep wages low, and turnover high just to pay more in the end for the same guy.  The economy in Michigan is not helping this at all.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-06-2008 17:07
And then they wonder why there is no "loyalty" to the company.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 03-06-2008 19:42
You guys misunderstood what I was trying to say.  I was trying to say that I wouldn't waste any money testing them again as in they probably wouldn't bust out on the test that I paid to have tested.  If I send a guy to test that has no cert or never had a cert I am gambling that he will go and pass and if he doesn't pass, I just wasted money.  You guys smellin what I'm cookin now.;-)
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 03-06-2008 20:52
So you are saying that you would test everybody regurdless if they have papers?  I agree that I would not test someone that did not have papers if I had someone with papers next in line, just a waste of time and money to risk they blow it.  But I still test the guy with papers for the records.  I think we are on the same page here...right?
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 03-06-2008 21:32
Yes, that's what I am saying.  I will test a welder even though he has certs so I can have him on my records and start keepin continuity on him.  If I pay to have a guy tested without papers and he fails, I gambled, I lost, and now I wasted money.  It's not so much of a gamble to pay to have him tested when they have certs allready. That's what I was trying to say.
Parent - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 03-06-2008 21:34
10-4 we are on the same page here.
Good, cuz you had me worried for a second.
Parent - - By Bmell209 Date 07-29-2016 23:52 Edited 07-30-2016 00:20
CWI's are not contractors therefor they shouldn't be "authorizing" WPQR's for production use. Qualification of welders is purely the responsibility of the contractor/ employer of the welder. welders are qualified to job applicable WPS's by the employer.. In most cases even prequalified WPS's are required to be approved before use. WPS's are written only by contractors... Unless you are a SCWI, then you would have the ability to write a WPS for a contractor... Usually for a fee. CWI's are not contractors, therefore how can you write a WPS? It's not your job. WPS's are nothing but instructions for welding, approved by project engineer on behalf of the owner. So if you don't have a contract job, how do you have a legitimate WPS?... the WPS would be fake. Welder Preformance Qualification Records(WPQR)  are not certifications either... They are a written record and legal binding document to the person witnessing the qualification test as well as the person authorizing the use of it. Many people can sign a WPQR and none of them have to be a CWI or posses any certifications, unless otherwise required by contract documents, but you must be an employer or contractor or contractors testing agency. if a CWI stamps and signs the portion of the WPQR that affidavits the whitnessed code conformense of the test, or the affidavit of conformense to code qualifying results... It means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! unless required by contract documents. A CWI should never be signing the "authorization"'of the WPQR. that is to be signed by the person(s) responsible for the welder like, employer, QC manager, even supervisor. Not the CWI, it's not his job, the welder is not his employee. At the engineers discression, previously qualified WPQR's can be used... This means a welder is allowed to weld job after job without qualifying for each one only because the engineer is allowing it, or the inspector is not fallowing up, making sure the engineer has approved WPQR's for production use. A welding educator does not authorize WPQR's for use... They merly sign as a affidavit that the test and results of a Test have been tested in conformance with a Standard Welding Prosedure(SWPS) and applicable code acceptance criteria. SWPS are developed and sold by AWS for not only this purpose but as well as for contractors that don't know how to develope them. Many SWPS's are not prequalified but come with PQR's and provide engineer with the confidence to approve it without worry as long as the contractor fallows the WPS. A welding educator does not and cannot authorize a WPQR for production use since he is in not a employer, therefore not responsible for the welder...Now a AWS Authorized Testing Facility (ATF) is the exact same thing except that they can actually certify a welder. This is for independent welders and union welders. Certify, meaning, the welder schedules testing... CWI conducts test and affidavits conformity, a application and fee is submitted to the AWS Department of Qualification and Certicifaction for approval. Upon approval the welder is given a certification card and ID number. Also the welders WPQR is entered into a public database. that is a certification... The continuity maintenance is up to the welder and his current employer. AWS also states that AWS certified welders that possess an applicable certification, do not require requalification for each employer, but that's still up to the engineer, but it's a nice little bow and ribbon. That piece of paper you get from a employer is nothing but a qualification and authorization to weld.

Now to answer the question, can a CWI just set up shop in his garage and qualify welders? NO. Qualifying a welder consists of authorizing the WPQR for use.. A CWI does not employ a welder. The answer is NO. The only thing a CWI can do in that regard is take responsibility for the employer administered tests conformance not its authorization. This is only necessary when required by the job, this is not a code requirement. People confuse this authorization with a certification. CWI can make up a mock WPS and administer the code required tests,  then take responsibility for the results and conformity.. But so can anyone else.. Code wise it means nothing... It might make getting a job easier but that welder is still going to have to take another test so that the employer can authorize him for production welding... Then when the next job comes, the engineer has the option to accept his previous WPQR. make sense?

Some processes like arc spot welding and arc steel stud welding requier daily qualification... This is different
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-30-2016 02:28
This thread is eight years old. Let it die and start your own thread.

Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Can you test a welder out of your garage if?

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