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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Percentage of SMAW for Pipe Welding?
- - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-18-2008 00:04
Hey Folks,
  This may sound like a stupid question, But I Need to know from You Folks about how much of our Nation's Pipe welding is done using SMAW? I need this for a meeting w/ Dept. Chairperson of Technology at my College. I meet with Him tomorrow @ 5:00pm. Thank You!
respectfully, Jeffrey
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 03-18-2008 01:01
Hello Jeffrey, not a stupid question, but possibly a very complicated question to come up with an answer for. For starters there are a ton of different applications for pipe and many different grades and types of pipe, carbon steel, stainless steel, and other alloys. Much of this pipe is pre-fabbed, meaning that it is fit and welded in a shop environment with the final installation being completed in the field. Even though this pipe may be welded in the shop and a lot of this in-shop fabrication may be done with GMAW processes or FCAW gas-shielded processes or GTAW processes, there can still be a large amount of it being done with SMAW. When considering the field applications of SMAW on pipe there are equally as many reasons for using the SMAW process. Access and ready availability of welding equipment sometimes makes SMAW the first choice for making field welds. In the majority of maintenance pipe welding applications it is very likely that these repairs will either be made with the GTAW process or the SMAW process and if it is an either or choice, SMAW is likely the one to win out due to the difference in portability of the two. SMAW: welding power source, ground lead and clamp, hot lead and stinger, rod. GTAW: welding power source, ground lead and clamp, hot lead and GTAW torch and torch consumables, gas bottle, flowmeter or regulator and gas hose, rod. When bringing equipment to remote and difficult to access locations the choice for SMAW is an easy one providing it is suitable for the use or repair.
     Geographical locations can have an impact on the amounts of use of one particular welding process over another. Areas that are heavy industrial manufacturing centers are possibly less likely to use as much SMAW welding as those that are heavy into power generation, refinery, and chemical manufacturing/conversion systems where lots of piping application and piping transfer systems are employed.
     With this question I am going to make an assumption that you are possibly being requested to provide reasoning and support for offering pipe welding at the school that you are attending. A better approach if this is the question might be to contact local welding and fabrication shops and try to get an idea of the percentage of pipe welding that is being done in the area and by which process. Also, contacting your local plumbers,pipefitters, and steamfitters hall might be a good source for this type of information, the boilermakers hall might also have some input for you on this. I hope that others may have better information than I have given you here. As I said not a stupid question at all, possibly just a little bit difficult to answer fully and accurately. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-18-2008 02:34
Allan,
Thank You for Your answer to my post. Given Your answer, i can glean from it, That regardless...I do have justification for being dissatisfied at the lack of pipe welding. A fab shop pre-fitting lengths of pipe using GMAW or GTAW, is still going to require pipe welding skills. I have to still go through the GMAW and GTAW portions of this course. TIG is the one process I have not had any experience in. I have approx 8 class sessions left, and I'll be done with this courses SMAW section, and will still have not touched a piece of pipe. Nor a piece of steel heavier than 10 gauge. My final for the SMAW portion is to tack up a T-joint using 2,  5" x 5" 10 gauge plates and complete a build up 2" out from the vertical and 2" up from the horizontal. This is our only experience with multi-pass welds. it's essentially one BIG fillet weld. He then cuts it to check for any slag inclusions. I'll still call my local pipe fitters union hall to ask questions. Thank You Very Much for all the help, and for the knowledge you have imparted to me.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady Sr.
OH. I spent some time this weekend doing some welding for my Mother. I set-up my Mig welder in Fluxcore-S, (becuase of the windy conditions), and welded up some of Her Garden Trellaces. She would have wasted her money by throwing them away. At least I got a chance this year to be of use to somebody as far as welding is concerned.
I'll conact You Tomorrow after my meeting and Math Class.
Jeffrey
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-18-2008 03:59
Allan,
  Hello again! I have, thought about this, and I Think I am going to have to humble myself and ask a couple of the Members of My Masonic Lodge,(who are in the welding trades), to take me under their wing for some hands on demonstration. One is a pipe Fitter and one is a maintenance Welder for KONE Elevator. I have My MIG machine and also all the consumables for Stick welding. One of my lodge brothers owns the leading HVAC shop in my area. He has the shop space and the other welding mahines. I put this all together and i have opportunities i was too proud to ask for assistance in. I felt embarrased to ask, as i haven't been able to attend to my obligations for Lodge since i started School. I don't know if You are familiar with Free Masonry, but I was Senior Warden this year, and i was supposed to move to Master of the Lodge next year. Humble Pie Is Good For The Soul!!
  I'll keep You posted on al the happenings, and of course pick Your brain for more Instruction.  Thanks Again Allan!
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady Sr. 
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 03-18-2008 05:59
Hello Jeffrey, I have known Masons throughout my life, but have not fully understood their function and purpose. I have noticed however that they have been willing to help out many of those around them. I also would tend to believe that a brotherhood implies exactly that, a willingness to help out their fellow brother. I would also venture to guess that they would be more than honored and willing to help you out with some of your life's ambitions, as I'm sure you would in a similar situation were you positioned to help one of them out.
     Most of the people who I remember in my life are and were the ones who shared something with me with no guarantee of return for themselves. For the times that I am able to do the same, I understand their reasoning. I believe you mentioned in one of your emails of wanting to possibly help others who you may become associated with as you proceed with your welding career. I believe you will realize a great deal of satisfaction in doing so. I wish you continued success with whatever path you travel to realize your goals in the welding world, sometimes they may be disguised and you'll only realize that when it's said and done. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By spgtti (**) Date 03-18-2008 01:13
       SMAW is still heavilly used on alloy piping in a fab shop dependent on customer requirements. Most field installations depend on stick welding or TIG (manual or automatic) or a combination of the 2. I can't remember the last job I was on that a rod wasn't being burnt on a piece of pipe in an industrial setting. On commercial jobs(chilled water/steam) the pipe is shop fabbed with MIG but 60%(a guestimate) of the remainder of the job is stick welded.
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-18-2008 02:51
spgti,
  Thank You for Your answer to my post. I appreciate all the Info I can get. I figure it this way....I will still have to have experience in Pipe welding in some form or fashion. Whether I'm using SMAW,GMAW or GTAW, pipe still is a needed skill in todays industry. I will do my best to be a good multi-process welder. I didn't really think I would like SMAW, but I find i really have got a talent for it. I just need more exposure than I'm getting at my school. I need 1/4" to 3/8" plate to practice open root V-grooves on. Some Pipe would be very nice also. Thank You again!
Respectfully, jeffrey S. Grady Sr.
Parent - - By medicinehawk01 (**) Date 03-18-2008 08:56
My experience suggest that GTAW and SMAW are the two primary processes for pipe welding. Both are now reasonably portable as they can use the same power source with the GTAW process needing an argon source and is slightly more specific to the nature of the process. You really cannot use a percentage to say which is used "More" as it depends on the alloy or the WPS than portabilty. A paper mill would use GTAW simply because there is more stainless steel schedule 10 that needs welding while a power plant has mostly carbon steel so SMAW may be the more used process. Biotech plants use a fair almost even percentage of each process where utility piping would be SMAW and the pharmasudical piping would most generally be Tig welded. It depends on a slew of factors as to which process is used more.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-18-2008 13:29
I would have to say that in the field there is a great deal of SMAW going on, and it looks to be so for a long time. Its predominant. In shops it is less and less all the time. In fact, its getting to the point where SMAW in the shops just can't compete.
Most fab shops that today still rely predominantly on SMAw either don't know any better or have had a bad expereince with FCAW and are reluctant to try again. I've run into both situations.
The average competetive fab shop will roll perhaps 85% of the welds on the assemblies they build. If less you're spooler needs a new task. To get more you need special equipment or facilities like floor pits and larger positioners. This means FCAW and SAW for most pipe. Even GMAW can't match the deposition of FCAW of SAW. There are FCAW wires available for almost ALL low alloys and stainless steels, and many nickel alloys as well. And the great majority of these alloys have a version of wire that is all position capable.
But, SMAW will be around for a long time. The ability to do it well is a special skill. And the more alloys you can do the more special your skill. Especially pertaining to Monels, Ni's and such, some of the more difficult SMAW welding.
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-18-2008 16:14
js55,
  Thank You for responding to my question. I really didn't have any idea that FCAW was used in Pipe welding. I have noticed that my MIG machine in Flux-core mode gives me deep penetration and high deposition when I weld in My garage. I haven't been in a position (financially) to buy any gas cylinders to run solid wire. It's really good to know there are FCAW wires available for differing applications. I had heard that it can be difficult to get pipe to tie in properly using FCAW. But i wouldn't have any real experience in this...just what I've heard. Thank You Again for the Info.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady Sr.
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-18-2008 15:51
medicinehawk01,
Thank You Very much for the response. It helps me greatly to be able to Have experienced people give me REAL WORLD application. I am 42 yrs old and have returned to College to learn welding. I appreciate all the info I get from this forum.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady Sr.
Parent - - By welderdude (**) Date 03-18-2008 21:21
being humbled is the first step to becoming a great welder!  you have somebody who can show you how to weld right there in your backyard and second or third opinions are sometimes what you need to figure out how to weld.  every welder has their own style of accomplishing the same thing, and if you can actually see the different ways to manipulate the puddle, that would be to your advantage. 

as for your question, in my experience, 60% is SMAW, 30% FCAW, and 10% GTAW.  I work mostly in pipe welding, but also in some structural in the shipyard, tank farms, and water plants. 

when you get into power plant piping, paper mills, and refineries I would guess the percentages go to 40% SMAW, 20% FCAW, 40% GTAW. 

either way, SMAW is a staple in the welding trade.  it's like learning how to walk before you learn to ride a bike. 
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-19-2008 05:08
welderdude,
Thank You for responding to my post. I certainly am willing to take instruction, place my nose to the grind-stone and WORK at getting this right. I have no misplaced ideas that I wil come out of a college welding course with the abilities that You and many others here posess. I understand that it takes making some real world mistakes to become a proficient welder. I found out this evening that My Lodge Brothers won't be able to assist me for at least a few months. The most experienced of them just got out of the hospital after a surgical proceedure to to fix the "planters fashia" (SP?) in both of his feet. So, now comes the patience part of my journey to becoming "A WELDER". when I first started my quest to become a welder, i actually didn't even want to persue SMAW. I thought it was too out dated, and MIG & TIG being the mark of being a great welder. Well, I now have a whole different appretiation for STICK welding. The funny thing is...I actually like it!! I have found it to be very effective and fast. I also like the satisfaction of producing something that took at least some level of skill on my part to produce. I don't feel that operating my MIG machine takes as much skill. Not the way stick does.
I sure will be one happy man when I am actually employed as a welder. Thank You for the % stats for the various processes. I was thinking that maybe, performing repairs on heavy equipment might suit me quite well..i.e. Surface build-up and hard facing and some fab. Is there any decent money in that area of welding? I don't mean pulling in cash like those who chase shut-downs, or work the oil rigs & mines...I just want a modestly comfortable living. If you know something about what I an speaking of, please let me know if might be able to make a living doing it. Thank You very Much.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady
Parent - - By welderdude (**) Date 03-19-2008 21:03
if you have a few major mining operations nearby, then heavy equipment repair would be a good one.  sometimes the mines themselves might have a lot of work.  they have to process whatever they're mining right there on site...meaning lots of work on conveyor belt lines, structural steel work, hardfacing, build-up, etc.  some mines also have systems to pump water out of the ground they're digging...that's where pipe welding comes in. 

what state do you live in? 
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 03-19-2008 22:38 Edited 03-19-2008 23:15
welderdude,
  Thanks For the reply. I live in Illinois. Rock Island to be exact. It's right across the Mississippi from Davenport, Iowa. I've been told there are quite a few Pit mining operations in the southern Illinois. There are also many Gravel quaries in the North Eastern part of the state. Two huge operations in Lake and Mchenry county Illinois. i don't really know of any other mines in Ill. I think I'll google that one and see what I come up with.
  I am currently looking into continuing my education at a different loaction. Just found out there is a private welding school in Davenport, Iowa. about 15 min. from where I live. I got an email from Hoffmann Steel fabrication Co. in Muscatine, Iowa informing me that they take their welding hires from this private welding center. They say the training is top notch. Looking into Funding for this schooling. I'll take out another loan if i have to! Thanks again!!
respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady Sr.

PS. I think there may be some coal mine operations in southern ILL.
Wow!!! I just found out that there are lots of coal mines in Illinois....I didn' even know what was going on in my own state! also found out that the first discovery of coal in north america was right here in Illinois!
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Percentage of SMAW for Pipe Welding?

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