been in the trade for 25 years, combo fitter/welder tig or stick pipe hand. took a job with a upstart company man puts me with a young guy thats been welding for 2 years. can only weld pipe if you roll it in the stands for him, every word out of his mouth is a smart*** remark. will not listen to any thing you tell him, gets mad because i fit up in 2 hrs on 4"" and it keeps his hood down all day. today about 1/2 hour before roll up i needed to hang a double joint so i could cut the crane loose for the day.this guy gets mad threatens to beat my *** in front of the guy that owns the company and the owner just laughed about, what do you do about this on a jobsite when the owner thinks it funny, his exact words were "what happens between 2 men is between 2 men. does a journeyman have to put with this crap just to make ends meet these days
Pipewrench and a strong arm work wonders :D haha.
About 10, or 12 years ago I was told "Until you can do what I can do, keep your mouth shut, and your hood down". But I never had the marbles, or ignorance, to talk to my lead man that way. I think its called respect that these younger kids are lacking on these days.
its not all young people. I have respect for anybody that has been doing this longer than i have. If you can keep my hood down allday good , it makes the day go by faster. But there are young people out there that dont have the respect and need to be touught a lesson.
There are many young people that do not have any respect for the guys that have been welding as long as they have been alive. I am 23 years old and my parents taught me to listen, learn, and obey. I know many people my age that do not have this insight. If it were me, you would be saying "gosh darn greenhorn stop asking so many darn questions." I just want to learn and if you have the knowledge that I want I am going to ask as many questions as I can.
hojopens3,
Some "kids" just don't know when they have a good thing going for them. Man!, I'd give almost anything to learn from a veteran! I'm 42yrs old and just now in college for welding. I would love to weld pipe...h*ll i love welding plate. For that matter i just plain love welding! This 'Kid' has no respect for the trade or himself. As for the owner...he doesn't seem to understand the VALUE you bring to his operation. In due time the youngster will have His day with someone even worse than he is. i would just suggest working his A** to death, or make him weld without rolling it for him. Just my .02 cents, not like it matters much, as I'm not in your league, nor in your shoes.
Respectfully, jeffrey S. Grady Sr.
it's a tuff one I'm dealing with similar BS at my job right now
If i could roll the pipe when welding, hell I would roll it my self all day long. But its hard to roll pipe in a muddy bellhole ain't it. Sorry I was kind of being a smart *** wasnt I. Sorry. In a situation like the one mentioned above its almost nice if a little karma would roll around.
If I were in Your situation I would tell the owner in no uncertain terms that I will not work with a guy with that attitude. Put Him with someone else, Get Him to loose the attitude, or find another journyman. The choice is the owner's to make.
To quote one of Jimmy Buffet's fictional charecters, Freddy Fishstick: : A**holes are born that way and they seldom change"
the owner has a legal responsibility to protect you from harm and provide a jobsite free from harassment and discrimination, perhaps a call to your local oh&s or the authorities to give him a personal seminar about his responsibilities as a an employer. be prepared to move on
darren
Hi guys I'm British pipe welder, just moved to the states. Sorry to hear you have the same trouble with "younguns" here as we have over there, and I thought it was going to be different. ........................................How tmes have changed.
sounds to me like the owner gave you the go-ahead to beat him off his pedestal! or you can give in and take 8 hours to do a 2 hour job, then tell the owner you didnt want piss off his greenhorn again!
just do something by accident, likedrop a flnge on his foot, :-)
I gotta say it isn't just youngsters that have a attitude I'm 28 and I deal with aholes older then me from 32 -45 and I start to wonder where did these people come from what did there parents do to them as a kid to make them this way beat the hell outta them or what and there out for revenge or what?
What about 28-32, there must be some a****s in that age group to?
This is about the time when they start gettin the cones on the hard hat or signs on their back that say "I go nutts for cowboy butts". A gay pride bumper sticker on the truck is a good one as well. He needs to learn respect and that you guys are a pair and are supposed to be watching each others back. Pull his dam stinger and tell him to go stand by the welder and control your amps and fetch tools. That makes for a long day and he'll be wishin he was under that hood again.
Kix, has the right ideal there is an endless list of attitude adjustment techniques one can employ, baring that next time he threatens you don't back down most punks run scared when confronted. other then that I would refuse to work with him most likely the best solution all round. Your boss himself sounds like a piece of work himself and like darren said "prepare to move on."
Industial accidents happen on a daily basis, as do bar fights. Hopefully niether one of these will be the result of your bosses inability or lack of willingness to be a true leader. I have grown up and settled down quite a bit over the last 10 years, but back in the day when I was under a hood "what happens between 2 men is between 2 men" would have resulted in a swift a**whippin for this youngster. We refered to this as a "Knockout-Walkout" as generaly you would be walked out after knocking someone out. I do not suggest that you do this as this day in age a thing like that can follow you for a long time. Find out if you reside in a "two party state" or "single party state". Meaning do you legaly have to notify someone that you are recording your conversation. If you are in a "single party state" record this employee's threat's and go to your supervisor with your problem, recording this as well. If nothing is done you will be sitting in the driver's seat and all documentation will be admissable in a court of law, again, IF you reside in a "single party state". Make sure of this though as it is illegal to record a conversation without both peoples knowledge in a "two party state" and will not be admissable in a court of law. There are legal ways to deal with this, but it sounds like you may need to be prepared to move on due to your supervisors attitude towards this issue. Or you could just invite him to have a beer after work and see where it leads.
2 sayings come to mind - "Time wounds all heels" and "Age & treachery will always overcome youth & (in this case - NON) skill".
It is a violation of the law to have a "Hostile work environment" It is illegal to encourage a "Hostile Work Environment"
Whatever you do; DO NOT ASSAULT THIS PERSON. You will be the criminal.
Write down your account of each of the incidents in a memo, and mail them to yourself via registered mail. Do not open them, This is legal proof that you complained, and when you complained. Keep a copy that you can show the boss when you complain to him. Do this each day there is an incident.
You must also tell the boss each time it happens. Sooner or later either you or the trouble maker will be fired. If it is you, you will have a real good case in Labor Court and then a real good case in civil court. You shouild speak to a lawyer. You my be the victim of a crime. This stuff is kind of like sexual harr***ment. Most employers don't realize that even a single incident is a serious violation!
This advice should not be considered qualified legal advice. It is what I had to do at the advice of my lawyer one year, and eventually helped me settle out of court. (I just got real satisfaction, no money)
Joe Kane
Just refuse to work with him, let the kid sink on his own. Surely there's someone else to work with on that job. Alot of people will just consider any complaints you have to be whining if they've been accepting of this behavior. In construction YOU are in control of your own conditions, if you can't change it drag it.
Use that 25 year edge that you have on him to your advantage. Think back to when you were first coming up. I am sure you have had to work with worse over the years. Stick with it. He will either come around or conditions will change. They always do. Be the better man. Just dont do anything that will cost you your job(unless you dont need it) or your reputation as this is probably only a temporary problem. They are very correct in saying that your supervisor is out of line in his comments. No doubt about that.
thanks guys for the support on this, i did confront this guy in the parking lot with my louisville slugger that evening, he deciced that a fight with a "old man" wasnt worth it, h** i'm only 44 is that old now? anyway will be dragging tommorow, job is going south real fast this guy is losing his butt. example- line i'm running about 600' several differnt elevations 100's of 90's & 45's , spent 2 weeks fabing off iso, instead of starting at my tie in point he says start in the middle so company can see pipe in the rack, now nothing is fitting up. it's at the funny point now. to all you guys just starting i would gladly show anyone that wants to learn everything i know or what i've learned, we all never stop learning. i try to make my welders job as easy as i can, i have no problem rolling pipe, or helping pull leads or building scallfolds. this job is a joke now, went from working off iso and 3d cad to stove piping in 2 days, looking for work tommorw, thanks again to everyone!!!!
sounds like a completely book educated man with no real world experience. Man it's tuogh to work with those that don't have any practical experience.
Those that think it will work just because the autocad says so.
Sounds like the right choice. I'm 47 and I tell our young workers that they are in a lose-lose situation if they ever want to fight me. If they beat me there is no honor in beating an "old" man. And shame on them if an old man beats them.
The last guy that got testy with me drug up on me that morning. Called me at noon (after getting drunk) cussed me out on the phone. I asked him why so brave now on the phone but not a word when face to face this morning. He replied, "You think I'm scared of you, you ain't but two years older than me."
I said, you idiot at our age 44 and 42 being the older one is a disadvantage.
Hope you find a good one quick.
Have him put on an X-Ray weld and tell him they'll run him off if it don't pass.........Make sure it's right in a corner six inches off the floor.
That's the ticket!!!
Oh yeah, and tell him he's required to use multiple mirrors, and 5/32 dia. rod to perform the test. ;)
If he doesn't want to do the test, call him out as being a "punk **s sissy who needs to crawl home, and cry to his mommy ;) ;) ;)"
Respectfully,
Henry
I was told by an older man to either step up or shut up and get the f*** out of the way because there is work to be done so I shut up and learned as much off of him as I could and know I am running a small outfit with five rigs and a shop so there is always different ways to go about it. You were not looking for a job when you found that one, right? so I would not worry to much about the persecution you may receive in the end but at least you have said your peace.
The other thing you could do is make him do his own fitting and welding and you work right next to him and show him how it should be done...
if he has all the answers, let him do all his fits and welds alone, just run him in the ground and do your job. he will figure it out or be gone.
I agree with you rig welder6 let him do all the fits and see how long he last
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