You've read it here before, but it is worth repeating, the code establishes the minimum requirements that have to be met, whether it is for design, welder qualification, procedure qualification, fabrication, acceptance criteria, installation, erection, or testing.
There is nothing in the codes that prohibits the employer from administering welder qualification tests that are more difficult than those in the code and they can be administered for a specific joint detail or you can use acceptance criteria that is more stringent than that permitted by the code.
The bottom line is that the employer is responsible for the work performed by their employees, so if more stringent requirements are appropriate, as determined by management, more stringent testing can be required. If you want the welder to weld with a mirror to replicate job conditions, so be it.
As a case in point; ASME Section IX allows the welder to qualify on carbon steel using any F6 electrode to qualify the welder for plain carbon steel, low alloy high strength steel, quench and tempered steel, austenitic stainless steel, and nickel alloys. Does this make sense to many employers? No, and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so when I am providing my services and advice to a client, I recommend the welder be tested for carbon steels, stainless steels, and nickel alloys separately as needed for production. When asked if the code requires them to do so, I tell them no, but in my opinion it is a good practice.
In your case, if you demand a start and stop within the length of the groove, so be it. It is your company, you have to decide what is best for your company to protect your interest.
In my case, I feel as you do, so I make the test plates 8 inches long so the welder is more than likely going to make a start and stop along the length of the groove. In the case of pipe welding, I use the visual acceptance criteria of the piping code and appropriate category for the work that is being performed. It is always more stringent than Section IX. If the welder doesn't like it, he or she can go elsewhere to work and elsewhere to be tested.
Fair play is fair play. Make sure you tell the welder what you want and what you expect in the way of in-process inspections, acceptance criteria, etc. before the test is started. I never liked it when someone changed the rules of the game half way through the test.
Best regards - Al
Well i scheduled a appointment to talk with a instructer on monday and heres what they offer.
basic mig welding
intermediate mig welding
advanced mig welding at at the end of this term i can take a AWS test to certify
same thing goes for the stick coarse
basic stick
intermediate stick
advanced stick which you can take a test to certify for AWS
and they offer a basic tig coarse
I dunno if its gonna be worth the money for the papers honestley i could more than likey just jump in on the advance classes then test. i was hoping they would do more pipe and stuff but i guess it's just plate tests horizontal, vertical and overhead.
I'd try and go to a school that you go through plate and you do pipe
I think you may have mixed up base metals and filler metals used for performance qualification for welders. Section IX does allow qualification on P1 materials (basically carbon steel) to qualify a welder for P1, P8 (SS) and P43 (Ni alloys) for example.
For fillers, the Table in QW 433 shows that qualification using fillers classified as F1 thru F5 normally qualifies a welder on the F# used and F1. Fillers F1 through F4 (all types of carbon steels) may also qualify for the lower, e.g., F4 qualifies for F4, F3, F2 and F1. For example, E7018 (F4) qualifies a welder to use 6010 (F3), 6012 (F2) and 7028 (F1). Using 308-16 (F5) qualifies a welder to use F5 (austenitic and duplex) as well as 7028 (F1).
To qualify for nickel alloys, an F4X filler must be used, but the test weld can be made on carbon steel base metal. This makes sense where qualification is done by radiography. When mechanical testing is required, e.g., bend tests, it may be best to use the intended base metal also.
Just as a side note, when we test new welders for employment (mainly GTAW) we test them on Inconel base and filler. It is our opinion that if he/she can weld that sucessfully, they can certainly weld carbon and ss as well, if not better. Qualification of welders, in many cases, is governed by Client welding specifications and may even require qualification on Project materials, not just any base metal of equal P#.
By 803056 
Date 04-02-2008 15:13
Edited 04-02-2008 15:23
Did I miss something? It wouldn't be the first time.
In my response I noted that an F6 filler metal can be used. F6 covers a multitude of filler metals used with the GMAW, GTAW, FCAW, and SAW processes.
I didn't say that if the welder qualified with F6 he was also qualified for F4X, only that he is qualified for the P4X base metals welded with a F6 filler metal assuming there is no change in welding process, etc.
I may not have included sufficient detail to explain myself. I didn't mention the basis of the range of base metals qualified is paragraph QW-423.
I agree with your position that a change in F number will usually require the welder to be requalified, but when working with ASME you have to keep in mind that there is "A"lways or "S"ometimes or "M"aybe an "E"xception to the rule such as is the case when "stick" welding with an F1, F2, F3, F4 or F5 filler metal.
Never, never forget what the letters ASME stand for.
Best regards - Al
