Reveiwing a suppliers welder qual test papers, I do not find where it lists the amps, volts, IPM, nor reference a wps #.All other info seems to be ok.It does state " Weld Procedure No. AWS D1.1". Please correct me if I am wrong but is it not required to list or reference either the WPS# and/or amps,volts etc? Thanks for any insight on this.
I'm looking at Annex N of D1.1 2006 and it includes
Welding procedure Specification #
It also includes current/polarity type but not values of amps, volts etc
I would not be ready to accept "AWS D1.1" as a WPS number...
Such a poorly written Welder Performance Qualification Test Record would make me ask to see the original WPS for the testing and if it's not prequalified the PQR to support it. (If you have the authority to make such requests)
The welder qualifies by process and position (mostly). See Table 4.12 on Page 150 of D1.1:2006. The welder quals, if based on the example shown in Annex N, reflect that and won't list "amps" or "travel speed"
Using "AWS D1.1" as a WPS number is odd but, I've certainly seen plenty of that - particularly from vendors that don't work to code too often. I'd certainly want to see this "AWS D1.1" WPS and any supporting documentation. I believe that there is some verbiage in the D1.1 that they have to "make available" this documentation to the "inspector" but, that doesn't not necessarily mean giving you your own copy. See Section 6.
Thanks Lawrence and Rick for the fast and clear replys, it is appreceiated.
D1.1 paragraph 4.18 says that the qualification tests are to be performed in conformance with a WPS. Last time I looked, D1.1 was a structural welding code, not a WPS. On the other hand, perhaps the shop actually named one of their welding procedures "AWS D1.1."
Annex Q lists all the areas of D1.1 subsections that must be addressed (as applicable) in order for the WPS to meet prequalified criteria.
Looking at annex Q you will find the list of requirement on a prequalified WPS. Sense you need a WPS to do a Weldor Qualification YES the Volts & Amps (D1.1-3.6) will be listed for the weldor to follow. Unfortunately When I ask weldors if they were given a WPS to do the weldor certification test the answer is usually NO. What's a WPS? So go ahead and ask for the WPS but sense your WQTR does not list all the as tested information it really won't help you much.
The Annex N pg 345 shows an example of a Weldor Qualification Test Record (WQTR) and has a blank for Current/Polarity, so YES the Amps (The flow of electricity through a cable, wire, or other conductor) should be listed on the WQTR. I ALWAYS list the as tested Volts and Amps on my certification documents. If nothing else it shows "YOU WERE THERE" to witness the testing. (I don't sign what I don't witness) I use the word should because this document is NOT listed under Normative but Informative, and I personally don't use it. I use a version of the D1.5 WQTR document including "Who Witnessed" the testing.
Finding missing or incorrect information on a WQTR, very common, finding it on a WPS also very common. Naming the WPS "D1.1" not smart but you can name it anything including #2.
I like to name it so I can find it in my laptop. (I have hundreds under dozens of different company names) An example of naming mine would be "All SMVG/B 18 TEST" or "FCVG/B .045 CJP C25 TEST" (i.e. Flux Core V Groove w/Backing .045 wire Complete Joint Penetration Argon/Carbon Dioxide shielding) I use the word "TEST" after the name to keep companies from using this WPS for production welding.
There is another string from the past covering this topic.
Just thoughts
I see no requirement in AWS d1.1 that REQUIRES a WPS be documented on a welder performance qualification record. D1.1 does require that one be followed. Just because its not documented is no reason to reject the WPQR.
Though it is a good practice, I don't see it as a requirement. I would have a hard time binding a supplier to that requirement unless the contract required otherwise. I would not have a hard time asking them to provide the WPS followed during the performance test. I would not have a hard time showing them how it could help in the future should they come across an inspector that feels this (WPS Number Documented) is required by the code.
As mentioned by others, the variables for performance qualification need to be addressed. A code compliant welder performance qualification record can be as below.
We the undersigned hereby certify that:
Gerald Austin welded a groove weld test assembly on a 1/2" thick material with backing using the FCAW process in the 3G position with uphill progression. Based on satisfactory results in accordance with AWS D1.1 testing and acceptance criteria and ranges of qualification he/she is qualified to weld in accordance with all company welding procedure specifications provided that all welding is done using FCAW in the Vertical, Horizontal and flat positions on all plate and pipe equal to or greater than 24" OD. All progression must be uphill for vertical.
Signed ___________________________________
Date _______________________________
Company Name ___________________________
IN addition, recording the amperage, voltage etc ranges would provide no useful documentation.
If I have missed something that is written in the code, let me know and I will edit my post.
Y'all have a nice day
Gerald AUstin
www.weldingdata.com
i doubt that gerald welded that
Maybe I'm reading something here and not absorbing all that I'm reading, but the welder performance test record (form) provided in D1.1 does include a space for the WPS to be listed. The welder must follow a WPS when testing and it does have to be listed on the test record.
Best regards - Al
Is the form a mandatory form? It also lists other variables that are not referred to by the code in the paragraph below
4.21 Preparation of Performance Qualification Forms
The welding personnel shall follow a WPS applicable
to the qualification test required. All of the WPS essential
variable limitations of 4.7 shall apply, in addition to
the performance essential variables of 4.22. The Welding
Performance Qualification Record (WPQR) shall serve
as written verification and shall list all of the applicable
essential variables of Table 4.12. Suggested forms are
found in Annex N.
Table 4.12 is pretty short.
(1) To a process not qualified (GMAW-S is considered a separate process) X X X
(2) To an SMAW electrode with an F-number (see Table 4.13) higher than the WPQR electrode F-number
X X
(3) To a position not qualified X X X
(4) To a diameter or thickness not qualified X X
(5) To a vertical welding progression not qualified (uphill or downhill) X
(6) The omission of backing (if used in the WPQR test) X X
(7) To multiple electrodes (if a single electrode was used in the WPQR test) but not vice versa
I agree that the form lists the WPS. It also lists other variables that are not listed as required by Para 4.22. There very well may be something I am missing as far as what the code requires. I just need to see it in the code. I still say that the above statement would be satisfactory to meet the requirements of the code. Maybe adding a statement indicating a qualified WPS was used. Straighten me out if I'm wrong.
There are features on many suggested forms that may or may not be useful. The codes I have dealt with seem pretty clear as to what is required. That doesn't mean I haven't missed something. It seems sometimes that it is easy to get in the habit of turning what is normal into something that is required.
Have a good one
Gerald
Unfortunately I don't have a copy of D1.1 with me, so I can't wage a proper defence.
As stated before in other threads, there are a number of issues not address specifically by D1.1 with regards to welder qualification programs, i.e., how to administer a welder performance test. For those reasons it is the responsibility of the testing agency (or CWI) to have a program in place that does address all the particulars of welder qualification. A written program is a sure indication some forethought has been given to all the particulars of welder qualification testing. As a welder taking the test and paying good money to do so, I like to know the whats and hows of taking the test and how the test will be evaluated.
I have rejected test records that failed to list the specific WPS for the simple reason the test record is the only objective evidence available to indicate the welder did in fact follow a written WPS. No WPS listed, Puff! No objective evidence. Puff! WPTR rejected.
Admittedly, I can be a SOB.
Best regards - Al
I agree that there are items that should be done that may not be addressed in the code. I just could not reject an item saying that its not in accordance with D1.1 when it is a subject that is not addressed or required by D1.1.
I agree the welder shall have the WPS available. The WPS number is not required on the record of performance qualification according to D1.1 based on what I read. It would be nice if some people on the committtee were here.
I do want to be clear that the D1.1 code is NOT a replacement or even close to a replacement for a good quality system.
Gerald
Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Welder Qual test paper
