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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / light gage stainless welding
- - By mikefdolan Date 04-11-2008 18:21
looking for best set up to weld stainless sheet metal fron 16 gage to 22 gage currently... having troble with burn thru  using small 120 volt tig uint with argon sheilding gas... need to purchase the right equipment for the job
Parent - By bmaas1 (***) Date 04-11-2008 18:30
For that lite of gage I would spot weld if at all possible.

Brian
Parent - By jarsanb (***) Date 04-11-2008 18:50
What set-up are you looking for, amps/tungsten/nozzle or material set-up. As far as the material or job set-up, we would need to know what type of joint configurations you're dealing with like 'outside corner', 'inside corner', lap, tee. But just a couple quickies here -keep gaps to a minimum. Design the joints with some sort of forming reinforcement if possible (like a hem-n-smash or a 90 degree bend). You may be able to weld these autogenously (without filler). Use a very tight arc and a greater push angle than you would on thicker stainless. You can get much better responses than this if you can be a little more descriptive in the problems you're having along with joint type(s).
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-11-2008 19:48
Turn the amperage down below 50 amps. Use a 0.040 ceriated or thoriated tungsten. Sharpened tungsten, gas lens collet body and  a #4 - #6 gas lens nozzle. Use 0.030" - 0.045" gmaw filler wire if needed.
Parent - - By motard1 Date 04-11-2008 23:54
I spent years welding s/s in a commercial kitchen shop.  I was using a synchrowave 350.  I used 3/32 thoriated tungsten.  I had no trouble welding 20ga at about 40 or 45 amps.  Its all about finding whats best for you.  I weld faster than most but slower than some, so I know how hard it can be to figure it out.  I welded 14ga 304 s/s corners at 90 amps, most others at 60.  So its all relative to your hands, and how they move.  Also, are you scratch starting?  My 120 unit only allows this, which has caused problems in the past, especially on thin material.  Are you using a pedal, or a button?  More info would probably get a better answer.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 04-12-2008 01:42
howdy Mike!

OK   .030 to .060 SS  sheet stock..... You are working down into the dark no mans land hard to deal with SS thicknesses.  No problem really. 

First thing is you tig machine needs the capability to run in the range of 20-50 amps and have a method of fine adjustment...whether thats a heat knob on your torch, a foot pedal (most preferable), or a fine amperage knob on the machine.   For the .030 to .050  use a sharp .040 tungsten and a #6 cup....  .050 up to .090  use a sharp 1/16 tungsten and a #6 cup....2% thoriated tungsten is fine for this work.   Use pure argon at a CFM of 15 to 22 depending on the joint.

Now as far as your burn thru.....its almost impossible or at least improbable to weld a variety of joints in this thickness range without a foot pedal or at the very least a thumb control on your tig torch and prevent burn thru or "suckback".   However there are many things you can do to control this....

Second off the backside of any joint you do on SS should have backing gas if there is potential for that backside to reach melting temperatures.  You can also use backing plates made out of much thicker pieces of aluminum or copper which when tightly clamped to the work will prevent any oxygen from reaching the joint...OR BOTH.    You can do a search on this forum in regards to SS warping and get some good info on how to jig thin SS and keep your fabrications in line.

Well there are very few 120 amp rigs (I know of) with the finesse of control necessary to weld materials this thin.  Your might have that capability but...we don't know cause you ain't told us what you got.   Figure some of this stuff out and post back ....then we can give you a more in depth response.

Best Regards
Tommy  
Parent - By motard1 Date 04-12-2008 03:53
WHAT TYPE OF S/S ARE YOU WELDING?  THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENCESBETWEEN THE DIFFERENT ALLOYS.  MY OPINION IS 304 S/S  IS THE EASIEST.  I NOW WELD ON ALLOYS THAT IN MY OPINION SUCK.  TRY A286, A PRECIPITATION HARDENING ALLOY.  THIS CRAP SUCKS IN MOST SITUATIONS.  WITHOUT MORE INFO ITS HARD TO DIAGNOSE YOUR PROBLEM.
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-12-2008 14:00
A wonderful bit of electronic technology is the pulsing cabability of some gtaw machines. It breaks up the surface tension of the weld pool without the need for extra sustained amperage to break the surface tension.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 04-13-2008 03:54
357: Can You elaborate on the pulsing ? My syncrowave 300 has a pulser, but I really don't know anything about using it.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 04-13-2008 05:07 Edited 04-13-2008 06:11
Hello Dave, your 300 might have one of the more basic pulsers when compared to some that are available on other machines. It may give you PPS (pulses per second) and the ability to select a percentage of your peak amperage to determine your background amperage. Peak would be referring to the high amperage value in the pulse mode and background would be referring to the low amperage value. Essentially, in a simple form, pulsing is switching the amperage from a high value to a low value at different rates and possibly lengths of time to allow for a higher average amperage. This allows for a higher welding speed while still allowing for control of the puddle in out-of-position welds. It can also allow for the "surface tension breaking action" that 357 was referring to on the thin-gauge stainless and I believe it will also aid with "cleaning action" sometimes when welding on aluminum or magnesium. If your machine has a AC balance control this will allow you to select a balance of the DCEN vs. DCEP to aid with penetration or cleaning by allowing a longer dwell time on DCEP to aid with cleaning or a longer dwell time on DCEN to help with penetration while welding on aluminum or magnesium.
     On many of the modern pulsing power sources(mainly referring to inverters), the parameters of control for pulsing can take on many different aspects of arc control. With DC Pulse: different amperage values for peak and background, different dwell times for peak compared to background, different frequencies, different pulse waveforms. AC Pulse can be even more complex and complicated as recent technological advances have incorporated many of the same basic control items as DC and have also included: variable hertz DCEP to DCEN switching times other than the traditional 60 hertz that used to be the rule, squarewave and other waveforms of EP/EN current transition, AC balance control of varying types, in some cases an imposition of DCEN in conjunction with the AC current. I'm sure there are other forms of technology that I haven't touched on. Hope this helps explain it a bit. Best regards, Allan

One additional thought to add: you've possibly noticed when you go to tack up with the GTAW process that if you ramp the heat up too slowly it will cause the two edges of the joint to melt and ball away from one another. On the other hand, if you are somewhat aggressive, initially, when you apply the amperage and then back-off, the tack will bridge much easier and allow for fusion between the two pieces. In a similar fashion the "pulsing" action, when pulse is engaged on a machine, can help with easier weld progression. An analogy that I believe illustrates a benefit of pulsing in some cases.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 04-16-2008 10:12 Edited 04-16-2008 10:15
One can also pulse sort of - with a remote amperage foot pedal control if one doesn't have a built in pulsing attachment on their power source, or a separate attached unit...
However, one must find their appropriate working "Rhythm!" ;)  "Doobie doobie doo!!!" :) :) :)
In other words; this is the "old school method' of electro-mechanical pulsing with GTAW.;) One needs a bit of practice in order to "play the music" of pulsed GTAW! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry 
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 04-14-2008 02:41
To set up pulsing gtaw. First, set the pulsing controls. Second, have a pen/pencil & paper; write it down! Third, weld and see what changes are made. Fourth, change one and only variable at a time. Fifth, do not change more than one variable at a time.
First alternating current, set the balance control at max penetration, imho it is a waste of this control to have anything but maximum time at negative polarity. The 300 has I believe 68% time at negative. Sharpen the ceriated tungsten to a point.
Use the formula - 1 amp of current for 0.001" thickness. Welding 1/8" (10 gauge) aluminum would call for 125 amperes. Multiply this amperage by 1 1 / 2 (1.5) = 187.5 or thereabouts - set 190 amps on the main amperage control. This is the peak amperage.
Multiply the 125 amps (nonpulsing) by 1 /4 (25%) = 31.25 or thereabouts - set 30 amps. This is the background amperage.
Set the Per Cent (%) on time control at 60%. This is peak amperage on time.
Set the Pulse frequency (Peak Amperage Pulses-Per-Second) to one or two peak amperage pulses per second.

The remote control device will limit all variables if it is not set at maximum; ie. foot control device/pedal all the way down.

If the tungsten melts excessively or balls/does not hold a point; increase the diameter of tungsten; change from the 3/32" to 1/8" diameter. (one variable change).

Determine the overlapping fusion weld nuggets. Increase/decrease the pulse frequency until the desired weld pool ripple is achieved.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 04-14-2008 04:23
Allen & 357: Thanks, I understood the basics and played with the pulse settings a bit when I first set the machine up just to verify that it worked, but this thread was the first I heard of using the pulse to break the surface tension. My machine has 1 to 10 on the wave balance, it may be 68% at max penetration. I know these machines don't go as far in that direction as the inverters do. My old machine [Airco version of a 360 A B/P] has a seperate pulser box, I never messed with it, and the previous owners didn't either. Once again, thanks for the specifics.
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 04-14-2008 16:47
You are very welcome.
Parent - - By Nick Del Greco Date 04-12-2008 12:03
You may be useing to much gas flow .The gas could be blowing a hole through the puddle.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 04-14-2008 01:58
Nice post Allen!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / light gage stainless welding

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