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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / "Land" designation in pipe welding
- - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 04-15-2008 06:02
Hey Folks,
I have researched the Pipe welding sections of my Text Book. I understand the terminology of Root Pass, Hot Pass, Fill and Cover. I undertsand what a Key Hole is and I understand what Tie-in is. I have not done any Pipe welding, but from reading I understand the process required to perform Pipe welds. What I don't see in my text is the term "Land", used at all. Is this a trade designation given to some step within the welding process? I am a week and a half from finishing the 4 month SMAW portion of my welding cirriculum, so Stick welding is not foreign to me. As I type this now, My cat won't even come near me, as he can't bear the smell of weld smoke. My Cat and my stench aside, what Is "the land"?
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady Sr.
Parent - By Steve.E (**) Date 04-15-2008 09:31
Hi Jeff, Dont know about the US, but here in Australia the (landing) is the root face.
Parent - - By medicinehawk01 (**) Date 04-15-2008 09:33
Any butt joint or splice of pipe or even plate needs joint preperation.  The pipe is beveled to a certain angle(usually 37 1/2) and the land refers to the portion of the joint which is closest to the member to be welded. If you have ever seen a  90 degrees butt weld fitting, you'd see right away what the land & bevel are. Every welding process has different requirements and so welder's too have their own preferences in regards to fit-up. So, speaking for myself only , when welding (smaw) I like a "nickel land" and a 1/16 + gap. So the fitter knows to thin down the land on the fitting and pipe where the point the two actually meet  to about 3/32" and a 1/16" spacer is used when we tack it up.
Parent - By Tom11980 (*) Date 04-15-2008 13:13 Edited 04-15-2008 13:15
I have a question I was taking a twelve on twelve branch the other day ( My first one ).  I gave myself a little extra gap just to make sure I have a good root in there and I had heard that the branch tends to pull shut on a guy.  I put my root in and looked at it and to me it looked good.  the inspector can around and he looked at it and he told me that the root was too big and busted me out.  There were nine welders that day and he busted everyone of us.  I just do not really know what I did wrong.  Anyone that could help it would be much appreciated.
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 04-15-2008 13:26
It's the root face.
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 04-15-2008 13:37
Gentlemen,
Steve, Medicinehawk and Ringo...
  Thank You very much for your input on this. I now understand the terminology and it makes perfect sense to refer to the root face as the land.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-15-2008 22:28
"Land" is a nonstandard term for root face. There are a lot of terms that are hold overs from the days when Lincoln reigned king of the hill.

You'll still see welders (the person) using terms that originated in literature published by Lincoln Electric (to the best of my knowledge) such as:

          Land - current term - "root face"
          Weldor - the person doing the welding - current term is "welder"
          Welder - the machine - current term is "welding machine"

As I stated in previous posts, the use of nonstandard terminology only leads to confusion and miscommunication.

Lincoln Electric was one of the last hold outs that finally succumbed to market pressures to imprint the AWS/ASME electrode classification designation on the end of the SMAW welding electrode. Prior to that, Lincoln used a system of different colored paint dots on the mid length of the electrode and a couple of bands of colored paint on the gripped end of the electrode. Each electrode was known by its brand name, i.e., Fleetweld P5 as an example, and the welder had to have a chart to figure out what rod he had (based on the dots and bands of color). Now we know that P5 is the equivalent or it meets the AWS classification E6010 because the "E6010" is imprinted on the electrode covering. If I remember correctly, it wasn't until the mid "70's" that Lincoln Electric started to imprint the electrodes with the AWS classification.

I would have to look at some of my old Lincoln literature to find more terms they used, but why bother, they only confuse people. Let them die a graceful death.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-16-2008 02:04
Al,
  Thank you for the education on past nonstandard terms. For a long time now I have been under the impression that there were a great number of well educated people that were incapable of spelling "welder" correctly. I now understand the spelling of "weldor" that has been eating at me for quite some time. I can add this to the list of things that I have learned just today. I will also move this word from my misspelled file to the improper terminoligy file. And again, thank you for educating me one more time. I look forward to my next learning experiance.

John
Parent - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 04-16-2008 02:19
John,
Al sure has a way of articulating his experience into a manner that is very easy to understand...if a person is willing to actually read it carefully. I have a great admiration for people of His caliber. I save a great deal of the information I receive here in the forum and print out copies for future reference.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 04-16-2008 02:11
Al,
Thank You for another thorough explanation. I do have such a difficult time with the non-standard terminology. I eariier stated that I can now understand why the Root face would be termed the "land", as that is where one would drive-in the first pass. However, I much prefer the use of Root Face for this. The purpose being, it describes the actual location and even a novice could visualize the placement of this critical first pass zone.
Oh, I opened two boxes of Lincoln Rod the other day, one was E6010 and the other was E6013, and I noticed 3 dots on each type rod of differeing colors. I asked my instructor about this and he said it was probably a Brand designation. I know for a fact that he knew what it meant, but I figured he did not want to throw confusion into a class in which I am the only student using anything other than His E6011 rod. I am only allowed this concession because I had to demonstrate that I undertsood the proper use of different rod, and demonstrat the ability to properly use them. I have spent a good deal of weld time demonstrating my ability to control different rods in multiple positions. I feel it has broadened my educational experience.
Also my first welding manual By Richard Finch, Clearly delineated that,
1.) a "weldor' is the person who performs a welding process.
2.) a "welder" is the machine used to produce a weld.
I agree with you...I like standard terninology as it is more descriptive, and to the point.
Respectfully, Jeffrey S. Grady
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-16-2008 02:18
When in doubt, check AWS A3.0 out!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By medicinehawk01 (**) Date 04-16-2008 07:52
IF........only people looking for "weldors" would just spell it correctly than maybe the world could learn something new?
I am glad someone actually clarified that because I have told students for years that the welder was the machine and weldor is the person doing it and you hardly ever see it spelled correctly. Guess I am OCD.
Be well,

Hawk
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-16-2008 11:16
Gents; having been in the business long enough to remember the differences between "welder" and "weldor" I believe these terms are now considered outdated?  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-16-2008 20:53
That's the gentleman's way of putting it.

Al
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 04-17-2008 17:36
Glad there are some good spellors here.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-17-2008 17:55
would a keyboard then be refered to as a speller and the typist a spellor? LOL Or is it now a speller and a spelling machine. :-) :-)

John
Parent - By thewelder (***) Date 04-18-2008 06:07
HI you doing weldor's (he/she) don't put to much "atention" to the spelling, (we are not a "office workers" ) but to the info in the posts. just my $2.0.  
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / "Land" designation in pipe welding

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