I am a recently hired welding engineer for a small job shop. My main task is to qualify all of our welders to D1.1 standard. We weld fillet welds, square groove welds, flare bevel welds, and bevel-v welds. I am trying to figure out the least amount of joint designs to test my welders to get them appropiately qualified. The welds are done with GMAW process with 90/10 Ar/CO2 shielding gas running either 0.035 or 0.045 Er70S-6 filler. Most of the welds are in the flat, horizontal, or veritcal down position, management is more worried about asthetics than penetration, so vertical up is not an option due to being on the verge of full spray transfer to keep spatter to a minimum. My proposal was to qualify everybody to a 45 degree included angle full penetration weld with backing in the horizontal and vertical down orientation on 0.375" plate. I do realize that the vertical down orientation will have to have a WPS qualified before the welders can be qualified to it. The problem that I am running into is how to cover the flare bevel, bevel-V and square groove welds with the least amount of joint designs that I would have to have welded and tested
Groove design is not an essential variable for welder qualification. The butt weld you described for testing would qualify for the other joint configurations, as long as they are joints considered with backing.
Welding a coupon vertical down will only qualify the welder for vertical down progression, so if you intend to do any vertical up fillet welds you need to qualify the welder in vertical up somehow.
I am pretty sure the 3G will qualify for the horizontal position also.
As indicated before, the joint design is not an issue for the Performance qualification. For the PQR there are requirements on joint type however there is some help below
31) A change in groove type (e.g., single-V
to double-V), except qualification of any CJP
groove weld qualifies for any groove detail
conforming with the requirements of 3.12
or 3.13
have a good day
Gerald Austin
Yes, 3g qualifies F,H,V for welder qualification. 3g only covers vertical for WPS qualification.
Welder Qualification is not the same as joint qualification. If you want to do the minimum and get the maximum out of it, then you might start by having the welders qualify in the 3G position on 1 inch thick plate. Refer to Part C - Performance Qualification in D1.1 (p.128 in 2006 version). To see what this test would qualify your welders for, look on the table on p.145. If you need to qualify for tubular stuff, then you may need to do a 5G or 6G qualification test. Note also that if you qualify for vertical downhill, you will not be qualified to run vertical uphill; and also if you qualify with backing, you are not qualified to work without it without a new test. The qualification joint is shown in Figure 4.21, p.171. Also make sure you have a WPS and that the welder follows the WPS. We have had a number of welder certification papers submitted without a WPS.
Thanks for all of your all help. Either I finally understand what I have to do, or I have confused myself even more. So, if I pick a prequalified joint design with a prequalified welding process, and use a filler and shielding that is recommended by the filler metal manufacturer, then I have a prequalified weld joint. With a prequalified joint, all I have to do then is qualify my welders. Can I do this with a 45 degree v-groove on 3/8" plate with a full penetration weld with backing and be qualifed for any prequalified joint design as long as I have written a WPS for that joint design? I realize that the welders will be limited to a maximum of 3/4" plate. The vertical down joint design will have to be qualified with tensile pulls and bend tests. And then I can qualify the welders to the joint by simply setting up the same qualification plate in the vertical down position instead of horizontal. Hopefully I finally understand what I have to do to accomplish my task.
i don't believe that a GMAW short circuit transfer WPS can be prequalified per D1.1
I am thinking about 23-25 volts and a corresponding amount of wire speed to get a stable arc. With a 90/10 argon/carbon dioxide gas mix, this should put me in a globular or rough spray transfer and alleviate the concern of being in short circuit transfer mode. Thanks for your help and concerns, they are greatly appreciated.
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Read the notes about your guys only being qualified for 3/4" plate. That's for groove welds, they also qualify for welding any fillet or PJP weld size on any thickness of plate, pipe, or tubing. Pipe has to be greater then 24" in dia though. You can test your welders with whatever angle bevel you feel like using because it's not an essential variable. Are you asking about a 45deg included angle or bevel angle? 45deg bevel angle is a lot and it will take longer to weld the plate. Time is money.;-)
Sorry I'm not seeing where you think the Weldor test plate groove angles are not an essential Variable. Standard WQTRs ---D1.1-4.19 Types of Qualification Tests Required - 4.19.1 .... Tests shall conform to Table 4.11......left column i.e. groove tests use Fig 4.31 or 4.32 .... Fig 4.21, 4.22 or 4.30 etc. all are show a 45 degree groove angles, ΒΌ inch root with backing. (exceptions for SAW Fig 4.22, production SAW welds with RT 4.19.1.1 & Tubular butts Fig 4.24)
I'm not seeing the gray area allowing you to choose your own angle.
I do not agree that the groove angle is an "Essential Variable" for performance qualification. I do agree that the test assembly does show a specific groove angle for the test to be given.
So me chapter and verse as I did - D1.1-4.1.2 ......shall have been qualified by the applicable tests as described in Part C of this section..... (no gray area)
Do you know of a loop hole? Love to hear it.
Again, I agree that the test must be as indicated. But the groove angle is NOT an essential variable. If I take a test on the test assemblies as required, I am qualified for ANY groove angle. With an "Essential Variable" there would be a range as indicated in table 4.22.
AWS D1.1 requires that the essential variables for performance qualification be recorded on the WPQ record. Do you require the groove angle to be recorded. What about the range. What range is one qualified? There is no reference in D1.1 that I can find that indicates that the groove angle is an essential variable for performance.
Table 4.12 indicates the "Essential Variables" that are to be documented for a welder performance test. Nowhere on that table can I find groove angle.
Again I agree that there is no gray area regarding the test that must be taken however the term "Essential Variable" should not be used when referring to the groove angle used for the test coupon.
If it is referred to in that manner then there must be a range. There is not one for performance.
You're referring to Table 4.12 "what the essential variables are after the weldor test" or "what the test is worth after its done and what parameter changes will constitute a new performance test", groove angel not being listed. I'm referring to what the test consists of or how to take a standardized test. (no gray area)
I agree via prequalified joints, section 3, you have groove angles set with a plus or minus value added, any change outside the plus or minus would require a PQR for just that joint, but that is only valid after you have already preformance tested part c section 4, then each performance test is limited by Table 4.12, Table 4.10, & Table 4.11 & others.
There is NO essential variable for groove angle for performance qualification. The welder must just use the test as described. I think we are saying the same thing. Its just that the term "Essential Variable" could cause confusion for someone if used in reference to a performance qualification test.
I fully agree with your above statments indicating that you cannot use ANY groove angle. I just don't agree with the term "essential Variable".
Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Qualifying welders to D1.1
