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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / WELDING TERMS
- - By mujibali_m_a (*) Date 05-08-2008 11:12
PLEASE EXPLAIN THE WELDING TERMS -STOVE PIPE TECHNIQUE, CONVENTIONAL TECHNIQUE & DROP WELDING TECHNIQUE? AND WHAT IS THEIR DIFFERENCE?
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-08-2008 12:38
I have looked in AWS A3.0 Standard Welding Terms and Definitions, and am unable to find these terms.

Sorry,

jrw
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-08-2008 18:33
mujibali,
Welcome to the world of pipe trades SLANG!!! Stove pipe technique is a slang term for fitting pipe for those who should have kept their day job at the Fry-o-lator in the McDonalds! It refers to not being able to read a tape measure or the ability to lay-out off a print or in the field. The pipe is cut one piece at a time, make sure it fits, tacked-up, cut another piece....etc. Otherwise, anyone caught using the stove pipe technique should be fired and has no place in the professional world of Craftsmen. OK, in the real world, we've all done it, but it's like running a red light, something you absolutely, positively don't want to do if anyone is watching!!!!!
That is primary definition #1!.
#2 can refer to socket welds or bell-and-spiggot fit-ups.
#3 means it is crooked and looks like it was assembled by definition #1
The rest of the slang (as is all slang) you mentioned is subject to personal and local interpretation.

jrw failed to reference or does not have his copy of FC2002 handy...
I on the other hand, am a consumate non-professional when it comes to answering these non-technical inquiries.
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 05-08-2008 19:23 Edited 05-08-2008 19:28
Yeah I was giving a guy some crap one day about stove pipin some stainless bell fittings on our fire truck pumps one day.  He jumped my A$$ telling me that I didn't know sit about doing what he does.  So I had to pull my card on his A$$ and tell him what he was doing is mickey mouse crap compared to what a real fitter does.  Our pumps could look so good if they did it right.  I can't stand looking at pipe that's got an Akansas lean to it or a bell fitting that's plumb and the pipe is coming out crooked so it hits the other fitting.  The pumps are buried in the truck so they say no one will ever see it. 
     I think the real term for stove piping is when you have to mighter your 90's and 45's instead of using fittings, but we also slam fitters with that term.  Like said above, the other 2 are for whoever made them up to know what they mean cause I've never heard of it.  What someone else calls drop welding I might call something else and only know it by that.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-08-2008 19:27
Superflux,
  You are right, my friend, I failed this gentleman in not referencing FC2002. I do have my copy on this computer and my laptop at the house, and I beleive it is current. This makes it more of a failure on my part, and for this I am truly sorry. :-)

These should also be included in the FCStandard welding terms and definitions, if released in the future. I heard something about it, but it never seemed to develope. :-)

John
Attachment: farm_code_20081Draft110-Dec-08.pdf2.pdf (634k)
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-08-2008 20:04
OOP'S!!!
#4 Compound mitre-ing of fittings.
It's the only way to get that true amateurish-cocked-to the-side/rolling-offset look of total disregard for professionalism.
OK, so I don't know it all...
anyone have a #5?
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-08-2008 22:40
Hello Superflux, here goes my ignorant mode. I have not made a living welding pipe so this is the reason for the question. Long time ago I was led to believe that "stove pipe" position referred to welding pipe that was set-up as 2G, and "bell-hole" was a pipe joint that was set-up as 5G. So how truly ignorant am I and how far off are my thoughts. Looking to learn here. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 05-13-2008 18:12 Edited 05-16-2008 13:39
Al,
   5g pipe is a bell-hole and 6g pipe is an Arkansas bell-hole.;-)
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 05-13-2008 18:27
Hello Kix, thanks for the clarification. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 05-15-2008 17:45
Attached is material for pipe specifications that may be added to the FC pipe section.
Attachment: PIPEFLANGEFITTING.ppt (794k)
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-15-2008 18:33
Great stuff! Mind if I use this?

John
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 05-15-2008 21:31
I don't know the source but what is on the i net is usable I think.
Parent - By rlitman (***) Date 05-15-2008 18:42
PIPULAR!  Man that one's great!
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-08-2008 19:40
Just for those who do not understand the FC2002.....
FC2002 is a "made up" Farm Code to help bring some humor into our forum....these guys are just having some fun referencing the Farm Code.

Those terms are not mentioned at all in the AWS A3.0 Standard Welding Terms and Definitions....
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-08-2008 20:11
John,
  Any idea when we might see  terms and definitions and possibly a book of interpretations?

Maybee I should post a request at the " OTBar&Grill". :-) :-)

jrw
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 01:52 Edited 05-09-2008 02:04
Hello John;

I better tell my client that FC2002 shouldn't be used any longer. He's been using it for several months rather than the "Commercial Quality" welding standards of the past.

As long as you fellas bought up the subject of jargon and slang; in my humble opinion it doesn't serve this forum any good to reply using nonstandard terminology. If anything, those of you with knowledge of the subject should respond with the proper terminology to improve the level of understanding and communication. Hell, if I want to wade through a bunch of BS, I can go to any of several other sites.

I thought is was a little early to work on a revision of the Farm Code, but start a thread with the new material and I'll see if the committee secretary can start the process.

Best regards - Al
Chairman - Farm Code Committee
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 01:58
Al,
  I am sorry, I was a little out of line.

John
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 02:04
How so?

If you believe there is sufficient material to warrant a revision of FC2002, then it should be revised.

Best regards - Al :)
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 02:19
No, I think it is more geared towards the terms and definitions and book of interpretations that I am looking forward to.

FC2002 may need a revision to reflect some new light that has been shed in the "Welding God and helper" area, as I do not think this has been referanced in FC2002. :-)

And we obviously have much to learn and document in this area.

:-)John
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 02:21
So true.

Al
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 05-09-2008 09:56 Edited 05-09-2008 09:59
AL- first off "your opinion" ain't so humble in my world...it may be presented with humility...but its about as light as a cinder block for me!!!  LOL

You got a point on the slang and use of proper defined terminology.   Dog gone it that means I might have to keep my mouth shut more!!!  Probably a good thing tho ...cause I will have to read a bit before I talk. 

Best Regards
Tommy

P.S.  I am still waiting to hear when you will have time to visit our shop and work on aluminum foil welding and T-joint boogie research.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 13:09
I don't believe there was anything said in any of the posts about keeping one's "mouth shut". That's the last thing we want. We want to encourage dialog, but I would hope that our responses would be to encourage good communication with the use of proper terminology so that everyone could better understand both the original question and the response.

The knowledge of this community is astounding, but poor communication isn't going to help the person that asked the original question. This forum is a powerful educational tool, but it will lose its luster if poor communication becomes the norm. 

We all suffer "foot in mouth disease" at one time or another, no one more than me. Our responses sometimes bruise each other's egos or even results in hurt feelings, but in my case it is unintentional. That is true for most of us. I would hope most of us know each other well enough that the egos and feels heal quickly (I hope).

Best regards - Al
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 05-14-2008 20:00
That's it!!! From now on, I'm definitely wearing my waders before I venture back into this thread!!!:) :) :)
Al? You're starting to scare me there buddy!!! You're starting to read like one of those evil politicians who wear those new-fangled "flip-flops"??? However, in this case I won't take exception to it since after all - we're talking about updating or revising the infamous and fictional Farm Code...

The only suggestion I would like to make for John or anyone else in this committee is to put an explicit warning to those who venture in to this FC2002 thread unwittingly... It should state very bluntly as a disclaimer that one must wear manure/feces proof waders before navigating around the confines of this code. :) :) :) Optional Respiratory equipment is also strongly suggested for those of you not used to being around so much farm feces/manure. ;) :) :) Believe me - the realism found ,in FC2002 for all intentional purposes almost requires one to be shielded with the necessary PPE's!!! :) :) :)

Now as far as the "Stove Pipe Welding" techniques is concerned; here's an explanation from a book I have titled: "Welding Skills" 2nd edition, and is an ATP publication.
The author is R.T. Miller. Quote from page 301, right hand column, 2nd paragraph in "Special Welding Processes" section under Pipe Welding found in chapter 29:
" The stove pipe or position method of welding pipe, consist of lining up each section, length by length, and welding each joint while the pipe remains stationary. Since the pipe is not revolved, the welding has to be done in various positions - flat, horizontal, vertical, and overhead."

Now I'm not saying that this is the official or correct interpretation of "Stove pipe welding" but at the very least, it is an explanation found in a book published by a reputable publisher whom I hope did some research in order to validate the published explanation (Yeah Right!!!).

As for the other non-standard terms and definitions are concerned, I'm not going to touch them with a ten foot pole!!!:) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-09-2008 12:01 Edited 05-09-2008 12:17
From my lofty position as Secretary of the Farm Code, I would propose that rather than an update for the FC or Terms and Definitions (there are enough non-standard jargons in the real doc) we publish Industry Standards and Standard Practices

*Note the guy hanging on the big red tank does appear to be wearing approved hearing protection :)
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 13:14
Where do you find these photos!

They would be funny if we could ignor the consequences of what could happen.

I believe this would be best handled as an Annex of "Best Industry Practices" in the Farm Code.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 18:08
The Navy has some great stuff on their site.....search through the previous photos of the week....

http://safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/default.htm
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 19:06
Outstanding LOTO procedure!!
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 13:15 Edited 05-09-2008 13:19
Lawrence,
  Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the busted up piece of equipment in the first picture, and what caused the failure?

John

EDIT: BTW I think you should head up the "FC Safety Standards and Procedures"! Great stuff my friend.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 05-09-2008 13:53
Hello John, that little piece of busted up stuff is likely a portion of the cross/slide apron drive assembly from a metal lathe and I would guess the modifications are a result of an "oh s**t" when it crashed against the chuck. Just a guess though. Regards, Allan
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 14:13
Allan,
  Thank you for bringing me up to speed. I have little to no experiance with lathes, leaning more to the "no" side of it.

Looks like it could have been quite the experiance for whoever was operating it.

John
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 05-09-2008 14:19

>Heh<


I just googled "bad weld"
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 05-13-2008 18:20
The guy hanging from the crane with a strap is suppose to have a shackle on the headache ball.  Can't have more then one strap on the hook anymore without a shackle.;-) Man what was he thinking not using a shackle.
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 05-15-2008 18:30
page 945 - Sixth Edition - July 1940 "Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding Design & Practice" Lincoln Electric. "The firing line crew, including several welders, completes the welds of the long sections. These operators weld at the top of the pipe while a helper turns the pipe by means of a chain pipe wrench. Thus, all welding is done in a flat, downhand position,...  ...when the section is entirely welded, the pipe is rolled off the dollies and the pipe sections are painted and then joined into a continuous stretch by "bell-hole welding."
"This pipe is placed on timber skids near or over the trench and, in this position, it is "bell-hole" welded. (in position not rolled)".
"...the stove-pipe method is frequently employed. Here, all joints (usually plain end without liner) are positioned-welded like bell-hole joints. One joint at a time is added to the line" ..."After tacking, two bell-hole welders work simultaneously on both sides of the joint, making the complete first bead, each welder coming down from the top."
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / WELDING TERMS

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