Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Low chloride markers
- - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-09-2008 20:12
Hello Everyone,
  What are the concerns with using markers and tape with a high percentage of chloride on SS pipe and fittings?

I will probably get spanked by the oil & gas people for not being more familiar with this, but I have only had to deal with is once.

John
Parent - - By mechan (**) Date 05-10-2008 00:49
I've always just used those red accounting pencils.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-10-2008 01:50
I looked into other options but the way the spools were assembled and stored it was necessary to have a more visible and permenant mark, and it was required to seal the ends until final fabrication.

So by having to match the pre fabricated sections to an ISO and weld map as well as having to seal everything for us to install later, the only realistic option was to use low chloride paint and tape.

The kicker is that these items are not hard or expensive to aquire. Plus the amount of SS line and fittings were minimal for the overall job, as there was only a short section of the SS to fabricate.

jrw
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 05-10-2008 05:09
Ill throw in some words here.    High Chloride levels contribute to Chloride stress corrosion cracking.  The reason why steam condensate is commonly used to hydrotest SS piping.  Liquid dye penetrant test systems must usually meet a standard for low chloride levels as do markers.  I believe that is an industry practice and not a code requirement but I could be wrong. 
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-10-2008 05:16
RANDER,
  Thank you for the explanation, as well as the refreshment of memory.

I do remember something about The PT being referenced in this requirment.

I, as well, can not recall if it was code based or not.

John
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 05-12-2008 13:28
When I was working in a pharmaceutical equip supply shop, they were extremely paranoid about anything with chlorides, including markers and tape. They just did not want to allow anything to come into contact with the materials, even prior to passivisation that could even theoretically contribute to corrosion.
I think the paranoia was due to the fact that they could not explain the cause for rouging, and so were being overly cautious in order to try to prevent it.
For those of you who don't know what I mean by rouging, it is a kind of phenomena in which stainless steel occasionally and mysteriously develops a kind of patchy light corrosion in irregular locations and looks like someone applied rouge or red powder to the surface. This is a major problem for pharmaceutical equipment as the product contacting surfaces mat not even have a scratch large enough to trap a piece of bacteria much less corrosion of any type, due to the risk of product contamination.

Tim
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-12-2008 13:56
Tim,
  Thank you for the information from the pharmaceutical side. I am sure glad you explained what "rouging" is because I definatly would not have had a clue.

I can only imagine the stringent requirements neccessary in this field. It sounds very interesting.

John
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 05-12-2008 17:39
To All,
I was first made aware to use low chloride markers back in the mid-'80's. Memory fails me as to what type or brand of markers we used. Many times, the cloride is not an issue, but I am possibly going onto a SS scrubber job soon and would like to have some low cloride markers on hand B4 arriving.
Any web links for research or brand names would certainly be appreciated.

Can certainly relate to the pharmaceutical industry and their cleanliness. Was working in a lab that performed trace metal quantity analysis and was instructed to replace some piping. Unfortunately, the temp lab manager was unaware of the proceedure and resultant potential for downstream contamination........

Thanks
John
Parent - - By RANDER (***) Date 05-12-2008 18:29
Nissen (Felt tip paint marker)
J.P. Nissen Co.
Glendale, PA
PH. 215-886-2025
fax 215-886-0707

Markal (Valve action paint marker)
LA-CO Industries, Inc.
Elk Grove Village, IL.  60007
sorry no Phone #

Those are the brands I see most often in the refineries.  
WWW.Mcmaster carr.com would be a good online source
Contact either company and im sure they'll point you to a distributor.
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 05-12-2008 18:45
Thank you Rander
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-12-2008 20:43
Superflux,
  When I needed to aquire these items, the Airgas in the area I was in had them in stock. I was trying to add a link to the Grainger site but it seems to be on the fritz right now. But you can try, if you go to thier homepage and do a search for "paint markers, the next page will have options and the one in the middle will say "paint" click on that and go to page 6, about halfway down the low chloride markers start.

I would think just about any welding supply would have them or could get them fairly quickly.

As far as brand, I am sorry, I did not deal with low chloride applications long enough to base an opinion on brand. I believe we used Nissen.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/start.shtml

John
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 05-12-2008 21:36
Thanks
Good deal, I have the Nissens in my little bag of goodies
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Low chloride markers

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill