Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / RT or UT pqr's
- - By ctacker (****) Date 05-09-2008 21:29
I Sent 5 PQR test plates to a testing lab for testing. They Didn't  RT or UT them prior to bending and tensiles! D1.1 states they shall be NDT Tested prior to mechanical tests for soundness! the plates passed tensiles and bends, so we know they were sound welds. does this disqualify my PQR's?
Also while on the subject, why don't D1.6 have the same requirements?
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 05-09-2008 22:52 Edited 05-09-2008 23:00
My interpretation would be this:

4.1.1 states;
Except for prequalified WPS's in conformance with Section 3, a WPS for use in production welding "SHALL" be qualified in conformance with Section 4, Part B, Properly documented evidence of previous WPS qualification my be used.

And since 4.8.2.1 falls under part B

Either RT or UT "SHALL" be used..........(before preparing the mechanical test specimens)
Probably going to need to do it again :(

Unfortunately full acceptance criteria hasn't been met.

Was there a reason that the NDT wasn't performed? You would think that the people doing the testing would know it would be standard procedure for D1.1. Hopefully they will retest your plates without charging you twice.
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 05-10-2008 02:21 Edited 05-10-2008 02:29
I hope I'm jumping the gun here, I haven't contacted the testing lab to make sure they didn't UT/RT the plates. but nothing on their lab papers say anything about it.
and its not a requirement on the form to have that info!(I'm pretty sure, dont have my D1.1 at home) Its just our in house PQR forms ask for that info. maybe they didn't include it because its not required.
I did have them UT'd but not documented prior to shipping them to the lab just to save the lab fee's in case any were bad!
So maybe I am ok because D1.1 I dont believe says you need to document that info(again going back to the forms in the annex)

Edit: even if the lab did retest for free, there are plenty of other costs involved that make it unreasonably expensive.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-11-2008 14:18
You only get what you ask for.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 05-12-2008 12:30
Regarding NDT from an auditing point of view
If it is not documented....it never happened.

FYI-
The AWS D1.1 PQR form has a line for documenting the required NDT performed
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 05-12-2008 16:05
After looking at My code book this morning I did see where it needs to be documented. and the CWI I replaced had the wording on the P.O. to include Only 4 side bends and 2 tensiles. Unfortunately I should have spelled out for our purchasing dept Exactly what tests we needed to do.

I had told our purchaser I needed to qualify the the plates per section 4  so he pulled up a P.O from before which only specified the side bends and tensiles! A costly mistake on my part for expecting the lab to do all required testing.
At least I did learn something from all this. Al, you are right!
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 05-12-2008 14:23
Al has it right - if you don't specify it, then don't count on it.  Just because you tell the lab what code the test is to does not mean they will go beyond basic machining and testing.  I would be sure to talk with the lab people to see what you can expect - then make sure your PO is explicit

The lab I have been dealing with does not self-perform RT or UT - they will have it done for us if we wish, for a small, phenominal fee.
Generally, I have the PQR plates RT'd first by a company we regularly deal with.  If the plates shoot good then it's on to the lab.  If they don't then straight to the scrap bin and then we run another test.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-12-2008 14:34
Chet,
"for a small, phenominal fee" LOL Thats funny my friend.:-)

John
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 05-12-2008 16:08
I can't claim credit - I first heard it from one of our project managers - and figured others would appreciate it.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-13-2008 03:12
The more expensive the mistake, the more likely we will remember not to repeat it.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 05-13-2008 04:06
yep, my signature proves true once again :)

cant really say its anyones fault, this is my first PQR (5 actually) and when someone else does the ordering and P.O.'s I had no idea what was on it. come to find out we also send to a different lab for NDT. but I had no way of knowing. I had just told the purchaser we needed to qualify to D1.1. he just pulled an old P.O and left the wording the same.
saying we needed 2 tensiles and 4 side bends. It was when I was reviewing them that it came to light that they didn't get NDT.(although they did,but wasn't documented.)
I had asked purchaser if he's done PQR's before and he said yes. so I figured he knew what to do(My mistake for assuming)
machining,bending and tensiles=$2700
steel=$650
machining bevels=unknown
my time involved=$500+
Welding cost=$300
experience gained=Priceless
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 05-13-2008 04:19 Edited 05-13-2008 04:21
ctacker,
  This is one of the "perks" of internal QA/QC.

I get the impression from your description of the situation this is the case.

All you can do is learn from it, adjust accordingly, and move on.

John
Parent - By flamin (**) Date 05-13-2008 15:44
Unfortunate and costly mistake for sure, happens just about everyday here where I work, I can't count count how many times its happened to me too. I've learned that even the simplest, most straight forward, common sense stuff needs to be communicated even if the person being instructed has done the same thing over and over. It's just the way it is. 
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 05-14-2008 01:11
Well said!

Al
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / RT or UT pqr's

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill