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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / How to adjust the R-57 idler on a 62 sa 200??
- - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-10-2008 23:28
I just got this 62 all back together boy does it weld like a dream. it's got the old r-57 idler and well it seemed like it would take so long before to get it to idle back down after you got done welding I tried to adjust it and boy I must have it all out of wack now. I know it says on there to turn clockwise to increase time and counter clockwise to decrease time. Is there a way I can turn it all the way back and start from lets say zero. So yeah I'm turning both ways and can't seem to get it to idle down. What am I doing wrong?? Thanks

Chris
Parent - - By 52lincoln (***) Date 05-10-2008 23:30
i believe there is a set screw on it to control the idle down time.
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-10-2008 23:32 Edited 05-10-2008 23:35
yes i know I have turned the set screw but seems like not much happens.. there is a pin but don't know what that is for there are like 3 holes for the pin to go into the idle arms to the carb

I just tried to use the seach on here I know others have talked about this before but that search isn't worth a darn or it is the operator LOL
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-11-2008 01:04
I've been thinking is there a chance that the governor speed screw should be turned back down?? or no??

Chris
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-11-2008 02:04
[IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/banshee35/welderidler002.jpg[/IMG] only turn the flathead adjusting screw on the idler. I wouldn't mess w/ the governor unless it was absolutely necessary. I have found that with the r-57 set for warmer ambient temps (or colder) it messes up in th opposite temp. I had mine set for about a 15 sec. delay in the winter and it wouldn't idle down in the summer at that setting, i had to back out the needle screw. just a thought.............
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-11-2008 03:00 Edited 05-11-2008 03:12
see I tried to screw the screw clockwise all the way in and nothing then I back it back out counter clockwise and then totally nothing it still runs at high idle. I'll try and screw it all the way in like yours is in the picture and see what happens again. Now when you screw yours in clockwise because it is summer here in Lousiana, much hotter does it idle down pretty fast or is it kinda slow to idle down?? I did read on the lincoln manual site there is something inside the idler that needs to be cleand every now and then to make it work better. I don't know I really don't want to take this idler apart but I may have to if there is some kinda crud or something in there that is not making this thing work. Over all the newly rebuilt motor runs like a dream. I just been trying to baby it before i really crank up the amps trying to slowly break this thing in

Banshee35 when you start yours up does it imediatley go to high idle wheather the welder is cold or hot????
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-11-2008 03:07
yes,both of mine go to high idle when first started. it has to build up vaccuum to operate the diaphram. your diaphram may be busted. also, make sure there are no dirt dobber nests in there, they stop up all the vaccuum hole and lines and it wont do anything. does yours have a grind eze on it?
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-11-2008 03:16
after it builds up vacum how long does it take to idle back down?? no what is this grind eze I've heard of people talking about this. I'm gonna take this thing off and see if I can clean it out better I know it did have a dirt dobbers nest when I was taking this entire thing apart for repainting and rebuilding. I was affraid of messing with it then but hell it doesn't even work now so I think I'll mess with it again tomorrow. I really don't want to buy a new idler god there so much and I've spent enough already LOL but yeah I hope it just needs a good cleaning.

Chris
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-11-2008 03:24
[IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/banshee35/welderidler003.jpg[/IMG]
this is the grind eze setup. it lets the machine idle up when whatever you try to use whatever you have plugged into the recepticle. it is wired in series with the recepticle. all it is is just a 120 volt dc solenoid. its notorious for getting dirt dobber nests in the inlet side, not letting air through for the machine to idle up when you use an accessory. it will still idle up when welding though.
I have my delay set for approximately 15 or so seconds, long enough to change rods without it idling down. make sur you dont have any binding in the linkage and that the long spring is reattached betwwn the carb and the idler rod
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-11-2008 04:41 Edited 05-11-2008 04:57
wait one minute here you're telling me there is a long SPRING that attaches from the idler arm to the carb where can I get this spring or do I have to kinda make a replacement???? I did see a hole in the middle of the idler rod going to the carb can you take a picture of this spring and where it is at because my welder never had this spring you are talking about it was always kinda loose and I thought it shouldn't be loose like that going to the carb like it was missing something. The grind eze mode well that looks alot like the one I have except for maybe that little T that is on yours I don't have that but yeah the diaphram looks the same. Please can you take a picture of this spring that maybe my problem because I just didn't understand how that idler thing worked and now it is making maybe a little sense now.. so if it ghooks to the idler rod then where on the car does this spring attach to??

Mooseye yes ther manual I read online said something about cleaning the felt which I don't know what this is.

thanks
Chris
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-11-2008 14:51
here ya go:[IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/banshee35/idlerspring2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/banshee35/idlerspring.jpg[/IMG]
and my grind eze:[IMG]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/banshee35/grindeze.jpg[/IMG]
the other end of the spring attaches to the vaccuum line fitting on the intake just above the carb.
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-11-2008 15:45 Edited 05-11-2008 15:48
Thanks banshee yeah I never had this spring like you have. I guess I'll just messure the distance and find a spring close to that length what is the length of yours? What does the spring really do exactly maybe I'm dumb but I can't really see what it does? I did take this thing apart I made sure that the pin in the solenoid does move I sprayed carb cleaner through the vacume line and there was some nasty black stuff that came out of it, I guess that was carbon build up in there. I guess I'll reassemble it and see what happens.
The grind eze mode I may have to try and add this later.

Thanks a bunch
Chris
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-11-2008 16:48
the spring on mine is about 6 1/2" long from hook to hook. from what i can gather, it acts like a dampener to keep the r-57 device from just immediately pulling the rod back, kind of a delay in itself. did you set your o.c.v. when you reassembled everything?
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-11-2008 20:44
well when I took the diaphram out today all I really did was shoot the carb cleaner through the vacume line and some black stuff came out I manually opend and closed the diaphram with the arm made sure that the solenoid that had the pin in the center of it made sure it moved and wasn't frozen up and then I reassembled it all and I swear it's like that diaphram seems like it doesn't want to move manually like before so I'll know when I go fire it up in a bit if it works. or it doesn't but I think I really cleaned alot of crap out of that vacume line. I think it's gonna work though manually moveing that arm on the diaphram I think helped to get stuff to moving smoother.
What is the OCV?? I have seen that before people talk about it do you mean the output by the um little plug in for a grinder? or maybe it was for a remote. I checked that and it was at like 124V when running and I can't remember if that was at idle or at a high RPM

Chris
Parent - By 52lincoln (***) Date 05-11-2008 22:17
thats got to be high idle,and that sounds a little to high. 110/115 maybe is what u want
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-11-2008 23:26
yeah, i have mine set at about 115 at the plug, i think its at 90 vdc(open circuit voltage=ocv) at the leads. with the rheostat set on 100, take a multimeter and check voltage at the lead terminals, this will tell ya what your ocv is
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-12-2008 00:05
ok this is crazy I took the diaphram and all apart cleaned all the lines out I took the felt out it had a nice chunk of carbon build up on the felt I took that off, should I stuff maybe more felt in there?? I manually moved the diaphram as it is apart it seems to work great. So check it out I fire it up and it imediatley go to low idle. I try and strike an arc and absolutly nothing happens, now if I manual speed the engine up then yes it will weld. I took it back off again checked the solenoid and yes it seems to be working. It took a while to figure this thing out how it works so I see when the engine fires up the vacume line from the manifold to the diaphram engages yanking back on the throttle to slow the rpms down then I'm guessing the solenoid is what releases it and gives you more rpm to weld now I'm wondering if I'm getting power from the two wires that come from the generator I know one goes to the ground for my ground lead for welding and then other I think is what maybe bolts onto one of the main brushes but I'm thinking maybe my problem is now maybe with the Solenoid I just don't know it's driving me insane I've got fine looking welder runs great just won't idle up now when I strike an arc. I see the gray hairs growing LOL

Chris
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-12-2008 00:58
if the machine is idling too slow it won't idle up when you try to weld. adjust the idle speed on the carb a little faster and see what happens
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-12-2008 02:27
well that is what I was about to do I tried it onemore time read the manual this time I had to use a feeler gauge for the solenoid and the valve thingy and when I took it apart there was a huge amount of carbon built up on the piece of felt and tore that off and it seems to work it idles up when the arc is struck and it idles down when the arc is broke. now I just got to set it so it won't idle down everytime the arc is broke I need to set it for a 12- 15 second delay like you said. Can I ask this piece of felt is like a piece of wool now can I just use a old pair of wool socks as the felt or is this a special type of material I have to use in this thing? I'm only asking for in the future if this happens again. I may have to add more felt back to it to be able to get the 12 second delay I want, but couldn't do it tonight the neighbors probally would call the cops for noise disturbance

Thank you all so much for the help I knew I was gonjna get it evebntually and I think there is a few other bugs I need to work out as well. I gotta try and fab some kinda over flow tank for the radiator. I just can't believe how these dam welders weld like they say "nothin finer than a pipliner"

thanks
Chris
Parent - - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-12-2008 20:44
ok this thing welds great now but it only has about a 2-3 second delay which isn't enough time to change rods now I think I need more felt in this idler now is this a special kinda snuff? could I just use a thick piece of wool or what?? Thanks

Chris
Parent - - By banshee35 (**) Date 05-12-2008 22:30
find a spring to put on that idler rod, that will help keep it from idling down to soon. there has to be a little resistanceon the rod
Parent - By chris2698 (****) Date 05-13-2008 04:15
I got a spring that is about close to 7 inch in length so I'll have to bend one of the hooks and make it a hair shorter. I'm off to Colorado tomorrow for a week long trip possibly a new job but really just to get away and when I get back I'll add the spring on. I just did a little welding with it today and I'm just in AWWW of how dang smooth this thing is, it just about welds itself. I don't care what people say this thing is the smoothest machine I've ever welded with and I can't lie I haven't welded with a whole heck of alot but yeah this thing is smooth. Thank you all so much for all the help. If it wasn't for you all I would not have gotten this thing back together. Thank you all

Chris
Parent - - By mooseye (**) Date 05-11-2008 03:48
I had a problem with my '69 not idling down and it was the needle sticking in the solenoid. Try tapping lightly on the case after a reasonable time and if it idles down, this may be your problem. You can disassemble the unit and try cleaning it. If you do this, do it on a clean surface as there is a small piece of felt that is easily lost under the adjusting screw.
Parent - - By dg09 (**) Date 10-13-2010 02:44
I am having the same prob.  I took mine out and cleaned it but didn't do the diaphragm.  The best thing to use for the felt is the filter from a cigarette.  Peel the paper off and cut to length
Parent - - By Chris2626 (***) Date 10-13-2010 10:27
this is an old post, I've already replaced the r 57 hell matter a fact I'd like to sell the machine if I can only figure out how to post pictures
Parent - - By hillbilly (**) Date 10-13-2010 17:19
Chris, I use www.photobucket.com to do all my picture hosting and such. It's been so long since I posted a pic on here, I don't recall if it has an attachment function or not. Photobucket is free, you just have to register for an account. I ust it quite often, I dump my pictures from the camera or my phone to my account then they're always there. I do this as I'm hard on stuff and tend to break phone, cameras, etc.

Now back on topic.
Parent - By Chris2626 (***) Date 10-13-2010 19:08
I tried photobucket once and seems like i couldn't get that to work either haha no I just need to spend about 20 minutes and it'll come back to me
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / How to adjust the R-57 idler on a 62 sa 200??

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