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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Change in trade name electrode
- - By DAYANARA (**) Date 05-29-2008 17:34
Hi All
Is possible to change trade name the electrode without re-qualification WPS.
For example E-7018 Change Lincoln - made in USA for E7018 SHAUNG made in Japan.

Please help me.

Dayannara
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 05-29-2008 20:10
Dayanara,
What code are you working to ?
If it is ASME IX it is acceptable to substitute one brand of E7018 for another brand of E7018.
Not sure about other codes but if you post the code there will be someone on the forum who can help you.
Just talked to my Scottish Welding Engineer boss and he said with certain clients in oil and gas in Europe you have to requalify your WPS if you change batchs of electrodes. Now that is serious money.
Hope that helps,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 05-30-2008 11:53
I know on our products, we shoot ourselves in the foot every time we reference a trade name or brand in a drawing note or in a company written specification. They  become contractural to the customer, and we then can not deviate without writing an engineering change notice and getting customer approval.  Whenever possible, we try to reference an industry standard nomenclature and then SOMETIMES add the phrase "may be satisifed/supplied by XXXXX at......" -that way our hands are not tied.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 05-30-2008 15:55
I agree with that totally.  Use the brand name on any of your documents, and then it's something that you can't deviate from.  About 5 years ago we switched all of our print standards to on only list the specific nomenclature and not a manufacture or spoecific product name.  It has worked out much better for us to have the flexibility to use alternate product.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-30-2008 16:34
Yes, this whole turn of events seems quite interesting to me. For decades AWS has worked hard to codify and homogenize filler metal specifications for simplification, for safety, and for economics, and to minimize qualifications, and now the brand specific requirements that are finding their way into more and more specs seem to be rendering the specifications irrelevent. Or at least not as meaningful.
What does it matter if its A5.1 7018 when you gotta have Lincoln or ESAB or whatever?
Still need the generic to identify? Sure.
It would be, after all, Lincoln 7018 or whatever. But for how long?
What happens when more specific services and requirements render the need for more specific chemistries and mechanicals and more stringent testing regimes?
Proprietaries in carbon steels like in nickels?
Might be nice to hear from some filler metals guys.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 05-30-2008 16:46
Also, there are already plenty of specialty filler metal folks out there to take on the industry. Its just that they've been operating for the most part ont he fringe of the industry. I can foresee a time when they may be the mainstream, and the jumbos will have trouble competing with all the diverse requirements.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 05-30-2008 16:45
This is more of a problem with braze alloys for us.  We have a few for our aircraft parts that have no industry specification.  Our specs list only a trade name.  If the product becomes obsolete or poorly priced are are forced to start over.  In the case of our aircraft engine parts, a requal of the part can cost up to $45k!
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 05-30-2008 16:49
I recently had a client with some old PQR's. Some had brands on them some didn't. They all had AWS specs and classifications. Their customer required brands on the PQR's and with the PQR's with brands the customer required you use that brand or requalify. And this on common commodity materials.
Very interesting is all I can say. More work for me I suppose.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 05-30-2008 17:16
I know of at least one case where brand specific fussiness might be necessary.  Back when I was a welding engineer in a D1.1 structural shop, our wonderful purchasing agent bought some wire at a 40% discount from a foreign supplier and shoved it down our throats since he claimed it was "identical" because it was from the same "spec".  The welders HATED it.  Our rejects went up.  I ran a head to head test using some of our established PQR's.  The cheap wire had porosity, worm tracks, and cracks in bend tests, whereas the "expensive" wire did not.  We forced purchasing to go back to the good stuff based upon reduced reject rates.  I suppose if it was Lincoln vs. ESAB that might not have happened, but we were talking about some fly by night on the internet no name outfit.
Parent - - By MDG Custom Weld (***) Date 05-30-2008 17:31
That's where having purchasing and engineering on the same page is a good thing.  We have that at our shop, but I have been in the same boat your talking about where someone tries to save a buck and ends up costing thousands.  I have seen the same problem with import crap that is suposed to be to spec and it surly is not once you strike an arc.  I think if you were talking the Lincoln/ Esab/ Hobart or any domestic stuff, your doing ok, but once you pull some crap off the boat from a 2nd or 3rd world manufacture, you're in troubble!
Parent - By DAYANARA (**) Date 05-30-2008 21:09
Thanks all

I thing, the filler metal o electrode shall be take test, for  REVIEW is cover for A5.XX., after the change for acceptable WPS.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Change in trade name electrode

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