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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / DC TIG vs. MIG
- - By seagull369 (*) Date 06-06-2008 07:21
A guy locally here is selling a DC TIG with a high frequency starter (Miller 151 Maxstar + SnapStart) from the early 90's pretty cheap. Aside from perhaps a better looking/ quality weld, I was wondering if this thing offers any advantage over the MIG department store special campbell hausfeld I'm currently using.

I know the answer to that might seem like a no brainer, but I'm really only weld for my own needs here and there, nothing professionally or anything. Probably my main concern at the moment is if the tig can handle welding thinner metal better than the other. The machine doesnt offer any pulse control on that note, as far as I can tell.

Thanks in advance for the advice.    
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 06-06-2008 11:49
GMAW (MIG) in my opinion would be a better choice for sheetmetal welding. It is difficult to weld poorly fituo sheetmetal with GTAW(Tig) . Often times the heat generated after you strike the arc but before you start adding filler metal is enough to melt through or warp the area enough to cause a gap.

In some cases GTAW may be a better option. This is also dependent upon the skill of the operator with each process.
Parent - By Ringo (***) Date 06-06-2008 12:58
I think you would be alot happier with the results of a tig machine,but like pipewelder said it takes more skill.but just like anything else,practice,practice,practice.Also,you'll need a bottle of Argon.
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-06-2008 14:36
How much is cheap? FYI, the TIG machine will offer more all around uses than the MIG machine will. You can stick weld with it too. No AC with that unit, but a good CC/DC machine all the same. A pulsing unit can be added for about $350 (ebay) on average. Not really necessary though unless you're doing some real thin stainless or something like that. Good luck on it either way. :-) S.W.

"Go get the chains, boy. We got us a wild one here." (Uncle Emery to Kyle Lietz, Cruel Summer)
Parent - - By seagull369 (*) Date 06-07-2008 02:14
Thanks for all the great replies so far, guys. It's really been helpful/.

I bought the unit for $350 on Craigslist locally here. It came with the regulator/flow meter, an extra pedal & the other stuff I mentioned earlier, but no argon tank. I thought it was a sweet deal at the time, but that's before I learned it couldn't handle aluminum =(. I dunno, it's possible I still made out in the deal, but I have no real way to compare it since I didnt find that model listed on ebay when I looked.

I have a buzz box already (Lincoln 225 AC), but I guess this machine does the SMAW in DC which could make the bead laying go a little smoother and make welding (thicker) aluminum technically possible?

Could you elaborate, sbcmweb, on some of the other all around other uses you mentioned the miller could be used for? I was thinking it might work swell for brazing/ braze welding, esp. if I need to keep the heat  very localized, but I'm not sure if it can be used that way, tho. This wacky looking carbon arc torch I use with my stick welder works ok for brazing, but the flame is more akin to an acetylene torch.  

To address what pipewelder mentioned, poor fitting sheet metal is pretty much what I had in mind when I was asking about the thinner metal.  
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-07-2008 02:39
Hi. You are the first to tell me anything about using a CAC torch for brazing. It's meant for cutting & at much higher amperages than the Lincoln 225 you have does. Usually a minimum of around 300-400 amp range. The Lincoln you have will not weld in DC current, being it is an AC current machine. But, the Maxstar you bought will & do a very good job with SMAW 1/8" & under electrodes. Elaborating on the uses the Maxstar has, you can use it for any DC TIG application, less aluminum & magnesium. You can weld aluminum with DC current, but I don't have any hands on experience to pass on. Not to mention the Snap Start HF starter will not run in continuous HF mode.

That said, you can stick weld just about any metal on the planet, and you get TIG too. This machine will not "braze weld" as an oxy fuel torch will, but brass, copper, titanium, stainless, monel, tool steel, etc. can all be welded with the DC TIG process using the correct filler metals & shielding gas procedures. If you don't want it, I'll gladly give you what you paid for it. :-) Handy machine. Don't give it away. You got a, well let's say REAL good buy on it.

As for stick welding aluminum, I'm sure there are experts at it right here on this site. However, my experience with it is that it is very tricky & requires a high level of skill to do it to any real success. Let's say this, I've heard some people talk about it, but every weldor I have ever talked to about it says it sucks & is harder than it worth messing around with it. I would love to see some pics or experiences if anyone out there reads this! I know it can be done well, would like to see it.

Good luck with your machine. S.W.

"Why did you kill those kids, Dan?" (Tim McClellan to Dan Wilkes, True Identies, Not Far From Nowhere, Book One.)
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-07-2008 03:02 Edited 06-07-2008 03:12
Hello Steve, the carbon arc torch that he is referring to was in use many years ago for performing soldering and brazing. They aren't generally used much any more. They are essentially a spring loaded set of tongs, one jaw being the + and the other being the -, that allows you to clamp a carbon rod to each tong(they are insulated from one another) and then when the two are brought together by squeezing them they create an arc that generates sufficient heat to use similarly to a torch for brazing and or soldering. I have never done it myself or actually seen it done by anyone else, yet you will see it detailed in many welding books and you will also see the hardware included with a fair number of older welding machines.
     As to the DC welding of aluminum, this can be accomplished without continious HF, it requires the use of DC straight polarity and the aluminum has to be VERY clean while the welding is being done. The finished beads won't exhibit the same characteristics of those done with AC, but in some cases this welding procedure is preferred over the AC version, particularly on thicker sections of aluminum. A bit more information to consider. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 06-07-2008 03:13
ALLEN!! I knew if ANYONE would know anything about that, it would be you. :-) I know exactly what you're talking about now. I have seen them for sale on ebay & didn't have a clue what they were used for. They look almost like a little rug beater.  All I could picture was a regular CAC torch & thought "How'd he pull that off?" :-) Allen, I always appreciate your insight & knowledge. Thanks! Steve.

"Put them in the Iron Maiden.....Excellent!!" (Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure)
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 06-07-2008 03:31
Seagull: There is a tig brazing process, I havn't tried it, but I know of someone who does use it. You will have much more controll than when You use that carbon torch. For those that havn't used one of these, there is a blob of plasma, a little blob of pure hell between & out in front of the carbons. These work better for heating, as there is no focus to the plasma blob. That said, I brazed with one most of My teen years before I got an Oxy Acetylene rig as a graduation present. The arc torch is good for heating stuck nuts to loosen, keep the carbons in contact, no arc. The nut will get red hot fast.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-07-2008 03:43
Hello Dave, your post reminded me that you can tig with silicon bronze, is this what you were referring to? I do believe this could work nicely for Seagull on some of his projects where he is looking to join small and or thin items with minimal heat input. Regards, Allan
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 06-07-2008 04:41
Yes, Ries Niemy who contributes on a bunch of blacksmithing sites & Practical Machinist mentioned using it a lot on His art work. I am sort of surprised Ries isn't on this sight. Allan, He is in Your corner of the country, I forget where.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 06-07-2008 05:22
Thanks, Dave, I'll have to see if I can figure out where he's located and check out some of his work. Appreciate the response. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By seagull369 (*) Date 06-08-2008 04:06 Edited 06-08-2008 04:34
You got it right, aevald. It's something out of the WWII era when you look at the thing. Airgas didn't know what the heck I was talking about when I strolled in there trying to order it (from Lincoln). I got it cuz it just seemed cheaper than an acetylene tank/ torch/ refills. It does a decent job (used it recently to bend some car exhaust pipes), but the flame front is a bit errattic like Dave said, and you need to maintain a certain gap between the rods to keep the fire burnin. Since the rods are consumable, that gap keeps changing so you need to keep adjusting. Also the thing is just plain loud. Much louder than when I'm just plain stick welding I think. Nice lil trick using the torch on the seized bolt, Dave. I'll havta try that sometime.  

Thanks again everyone for the continued great input on this thread. Its given me some good starting points to get the most out of this machine.  
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / DC TIG vs. MIG

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