Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Fitness for Purpose
- - By Akahui (*) Date 06-07-2008 21:10
Hi Guys,

First of all let me apologise if this is posted in the wrong section,

I am putting together a "Fitness for Purpose" assessment form for use at my place of employment.This form will be primarily focused on quality and execution of work in regards to welding and fabrication.It will aimed at our Supervisors,Engineers and Boilermakers as a way of signing off on project and repair work by sub contractors that is not necesarily coded. I am trying to establish a benchmark of quality at our company and give those that do not have a comprehensive knowledge of welding and fabrication some basic guidance and insight into acceptance criteria.

Have you guys had any experience with this topic?

Any ideas you could share would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance

Allan
Parent - - By 3.1 Inspector Date 06-07-2008 23:05
Allan,

I think I see what you want to do - and my adwise is that you need to be very very carefull.
If I understand you correct, you want to give some of your guys "a short introduction" in how to accept welds.

In my opinion, no such thing exist!
Think of the CWI's, they have gone trough intens training and prior to that they have some kind of prior experiense in inspection.
It's simply not something you can replace with a piece of paper!

Fitness for purpose has(IMO) something to do with both the likelyhood and consequense of failure, and should only be assed by trained inspectors in that particular field.

People who asses welds need to be trained to do it....things DO sometimes go wrong due to poor quality of inspection personel.

My 2 cent....
Parent - - By Akahui (*) Date 06-08-2008 00:57
Hello Inspector and thanks for your reply!!

Interesting, and yes some very valid points I will take on board

Let me be more specific.. Perhaps instead of fitness for purpose I should have said "best practice" or something similar.

This sort of form I am talking about would be for example used to sign off on "A Low pressure water line with very little consequence if it should fail in service"say for example a hose that is used to wash down the work vehicles with. The type of job that does not require qualified Ndt inspection or the involvement of a CWI.( I am waiting on my CWI exam results at the moment so I understand and support your view point).I would never suggest that a job requiring specialist inspection ie coded jobs,pressure lines and equipment or even something with a consequence of failure should be assessed by those that are not fully trained to make such a call.

I should have been more clear in my initial posting Inspector, but I am talking about things like these say for example..

painting - If specified has it been done?
visual appearance - more so asthetics, have the welds been cleaned up..is the job covered in spatter,if S/S have the welds been passivated..
general quality of the finished product..appearance, fit up...
this sort of stuff...

In my experience coded jobs and stuff that involves trained people such as NDT personnel/CWI are done very well but sometimes jobs that do not require involvement from these sorts of people can often end up being done poorly or incorrectly resulting in costs and time to repair..

I hope I have managed to make things a bit clearer..

Thanks inspector, I appreciate your feedback

Allan
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-08-2008 04:50
Allan, I may send you some information this coming week.  I advise getting several photo's or drawings of acceptable and un-acceptable weld profiles as that portion of your educational material may prove to be the largest challenge. 

The type of program you're suggesting is common for non-coded jobs and even some coded ones. 

We've had similar programs here in the USA for many years and these are commonly referred to as "Peer Verification" programs whereby a welder or fitter or supervisor inspects the work of another worker.  When using these types of programs, it's critical that the staff be trained that they don't just "buy something off" because their co-worker is a mate.. in time, a successful program will be seen by co-workers as a method to improve things (at least in theory!).

All welders, who are truly craftsmen take a lot of pride in their work so critique should reinforce the positive aspects of doing a little additional clean up if necessary.

It can be a cost savings to the company but you have to sell top management on the idea of setting aside some time for regular training and reinforcement of skills.

As I mentioned, I'll send you some stuff this coming week.

Regards,

Jon
Parent - By Akahui (*) Date 06-08-2008 06:26
Jon

Would appreciate that mate,

thanks

AL
Parent - - By 3.1 Inspector Date 06-08-2008 07:34
WOW...just WOW
First time I hear about something like this.

You learn as long as you live :)
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-08-2008 10:24
Inspector 3.1, I realise your not western hemisphere, but this stuff has been around, successfully for at least 15 years, maybe even more!  Naturally, there's mixed reviews on it but it does work and works well when properly executed!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-08-2008 14:00
I keep samples of welds that contain different types of weld discontinuities and defects produced by individuals learning to weld or if they are qualifying. Nearly every condition known to man appear while training new welders or even when working with experienced welders learning new techniques.

I call the samples workmanship samples. What is acceptable to one welding standard may not be acceptable to another standard. So, the same piece can be used as a "reject" or as an example of an "acceptable" weld depending on the specific requirements of the situation.

Just a word of advice, don't expect to leave the workmanship samples in the kitchen if your wife is around. They'll disappear in the blink of the eye!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-08-2008 14:38
Good points Al!!!  Yeah, I've also worked with several customers who requested to see workmanship samples.  Wife doesn't even let me hang my paper in the office, much less leave chunks about the kitchen, lol!!!
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-08-2008 15:18
What can I say, some women have no sense of humor.:)

Best regards - Al
Parent - By Root Pass (***) Date 06-08-2008 21:18
I think my wife considers the house is clean when it looks like I don't live there.
Parent - - By 3.1 Inspector Date 06-08-2008 17:20
I am pretty sure that scandinavia is "western hemisphere"
I could argue: USA is so far west, that its actually east :)
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-09-2008 01:59
Inspector 3.1, I concede, didn't know you were in Scandanavia.
Parent - By H2oSkidog (*) Date 06-11-2008 00:30
A description in writing of what is acceptable and expected for each job seems in order to me.Its a shame we have to have contracts but hand shakes are worth what they used to be.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 06-11-2008 20:41
Hey Jon is it possible I could get a look at some of that material? I've been designing two rather huge training material sets. One for the Mechanical engineers giving them a crash course in welding design theory, metallurgy and detailing. The other for welders giving them a visible and written standard for welding paramters (interpass, pre heat, distortion allowance etc). This isn't code work, or super critical welding, but I've seen lots of unecessary, backwards, or ancient welding practices that I'm trying to stamp out in writing and in demonstration.
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 06-12-2008 04:44
Metarinka, I do not have a copy of any "canned program" just lot's and lot's of technical material that would allow someone with a fair amount of knowledge and a high intiative to develop something on their own.  Drop me an e-mail at my personal e-mail address and let me know specifically what type information your looking for and I'll be happy to send you anything related that I might have in my files.
Parent - By rodofgod (**) Date 08-31-2008 20:22
Hi All!

Very Intresting Idea! Think I'll look into this!

Cheers jon
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Fitness for Purpose

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill