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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Question about welder with one eye
- - By stever (**) Date 06-18-2008 19:26
It's my personal opinion that welders should have both eyes for depth perception. I have this opinion because, in the past and at different times, I have had three students who had only one eye. These folks made a real effort to get it right, but never got it to work for them.

I have spent some time on the AWS site trying to find any written materials on this subject and came up empty. Of course, there's the CWI Jaeger J2 at 12" and color blind exams. I don't think something from the CWI requirements is implied that it is the same for welders. This is not about can't see unless corrective lens are worn. This is about physically missing an eye.

Anyone know if there is such a document about welders?
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 06-18-2008 19:35
You're kidding right?
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 06-18-2008 19:50
if you don't mind me asking, why do you need this information? I have the answer, i just want to know why your asking
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-18-2008 19:56
I know of no such document. '-)
Parent - By Richard Cook (**) Date 06-18-2008 20:01
Be careful where you tred, this may be considered a handicap issue and could be protected.
the bottom line is, can he complete and pass the required testing.
Parent - - By Kix (****) Date 06-18-2008 20:25
I'm interested to know why someone would want to know if there is documentation as well.  It should just boil down to weather a person can do the work or not regardless of how many eyes they have.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 06-18-2008 20:39
that's what i was after
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-18-2008 20:44 Edited 06-18-2008 20:47
Kix & Hogan,
  I totally agree that it should not matter if a person only has one eye. I also am not aware of any document through AWS that addresses this from a welder standpoint.

One reason that I can think of for asking is this. The original poster mentions having had students. If this is education that he is charging for and he educates a person to weld, but in the long run they can not utilize this education due to documented requirements for two working eyes, then he has done an injustice, so to speak, to the person he educated. I think this would apply even if the education was free, funded ect.

So in short he may just be making sure that he is providing an education that will actually be usable to the people in question.

Just a thought. :-)

jrw159

EDIT: BTW, FWIW if a company decided to put a one eyed welder in front of me to test, I would test him/her just as I would any other welder, and if they pass the visual and destructive testing required, then, BAM, we have a welder.

However, anyone that has any welding experiance knows that while it is possible to accomplish, it would be a rough row to hoe.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 06-18-2008 21:27
However, anyone that has any welding experiance knows that while it is possible to accomplish, it would be a rough row to hoe.

I have to disagree. I have worked with an one eyed welder and he was one of the top welders I've run across. How much depth perception do you have looking through a hood? If anything it made him better.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-18-2008 23:45
I did not say it was impossible, only tough. If a welder that has only one eye can pass the applicable tests then you have a GOOD welder. Maybe even better than a welder with both eyes functional. Ask the one eyed welder that you worked with if it was easy. I would guess that unless this person has dealt with the loss of an eye from a very early age, you will be told that it is not as easy as it would be with both eyes.

In short, it may be tough to hold your own with one eye as a welder, it can be done, but it is all up to the individual with one eye to make it happen. It will not be as easy as it would be for someone lucky enough to still have both eyes in good condition.

jrw159
Parent - - By stever (**) Date 06-19-2008 00:01
No, I'm not kidding. I have actually had three welding students in two different community colleges over the last thirty years who have each lost an eye.These students gave it an excellent try. I gave them equal, actually more, attention than the other full sighted students. I believe that students should get their money's worth especially when the state is using my tax money to help train them.

No, I'm not intentionally being cruel. Having given more than my best to educate these young people, they still had a very hard time of it. Examples, not each and every numbered reason, of why they were having a tuff time: two could not see the joint to be welded even after several dark shade lens changes to lighter and/or darker, guiding their hands, working with them before, during and after class, etc. One student found that his good eye was trying to focus, but couldn't at certain distances. I don't try to run people out of my classes when the people are my job. 

The reason for the question is a legality. Our school had a gentleman threaten law suite because he enrolled in an autobody class where welding machines are used to repair metals. His doctor explained that he thought the machines created electromagnetism and since the student had a pacemaker he should drop the class. His threat, there were no signs (there were) stating that pacemakers weren't allowed in the shop. He didn't sue, but it has made the administration very aware of pre-existing handicaps, oops, impairments. Now each program is required to make a statement in writing telling what students will come up against in the programs and on the job. The state already requires and makes available some statements which must be available to the public through every state funded school. My present supervisor, remembering that he had met one of the seeing impaired students asked about having a special statement for this. The reason for his question is to have it available to the public that welding is a very visual craft. That conversation led to me asking the question here on this forum. According to those whose posts make me believe they are offended, which were most of you, I apologize for being politically incorrect in my presentation of this question. 

As I mentioned in the first post the AWS requires that welding inspectors have an eye exam. This leads me to believe that being able to see, I now hesitate to say *with both eyes*, is a prerequisite to getting a CWI. That suggest that welders don't need two eyes and CWI's do need a pair. On this ground I am asking if there is anything known, such as the CWI eye exam, that is documented about welders needing corrective lens to have 20/20 vision or anything similar. No, this is not what I wrote word for word in the first post. I modified it in an attempt not to offend.

By the answers that I did get concerning known documents I will say that there are none.
Parent - By csdenny (*) Date 06-19-2008 11:45
I came across this item on the AWS website (CWI certification section) a couple of days ago, while downloading exam forms.

Interpretation of Subclause 8.1 of AWS QC1:2007 Approved January 17, 2008 by the AWS Certification Committee Text of 8.1 of AWS QC1:2007:
"8.1 Applicants for certification as SCWI, CWI, or CAWI shall satisfy the visual acuity requirements of 6.1 of AWS B5.1, Specification for the Qualification of Welding Inspectors."

Interpretation:
These visual acuity requirements may be satisfied with the use of only one eye.
Parent - - By Richard Cook (**) Date 06-19-2008 12:27
Your very right on asking and research, it is as I thought an "impairment" issue and you would need to tred lightly in this sue happy times. No you will not find much on the issue, but I would do as your thinking and present a statement but have the lawyers and management approve the final wording, because a simple statement can throw you into the courts also.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 06-19-2008 18:26
This is not apples and apples but it is close enough. The link below is about a muslim woman who applied for a job at a hair salon. The owner required her employees to showcase different hair styles. Being muslim, she refused to take her scarf off. She sued the salon owner because her feelings were hurt. She won 15,000 pounds. The point is offending someone can be costly in our politically correct world.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23420128-details/Hairdresser+sued+for+refusing+to+hire+Muslim+woman+in+a+headscarf/article.do
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-19-2008 16:16
stever,
  Rest assured that you have not offended me. I can not speak for others. I will however say, it seemed pretty apparent, at least to me, what direction you were coming from and where you were going with it. I was slightly off, but still in the ball park of your reasoning.

This is a touchy subject though, so as advised, be very careful in how it is presented. (I think you know this though)

Best of luck,
jrw159
Parent - - By stever (**) Date 06-19-2008 19:14
jwr159,
Any statement written for the public is scrutinized before release by the school board which has a mandatory minimum of two lawyers as members. The reason for any public posting is to inform before decisions are made. The public makes their own choices even though I have my own personal opinion. We still have to inform them.

CSDenney,
"Interpretation:
These visual acuity requirements may be satisfied with the use of only one eye."

Is that the interpretation of 6.1 of AWS B5.1?
Parent - By csdenny (*) Date 06-19-2008 19:26
Yes, I cut and pasted exactly what was on the AWS website.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-19-2008 19:32
stever,
   That is the way I interpret it. But the key word is "may" and while I am not an eye doctor, based on the vision tests I have taken, I would think it "may" be difficult to pass with only one eye. But since I have never taken the test with one eye, it "may" not be as hard as I think.

BTW ANSI/WS QC1-96 words it the same way.

jrw159
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 06-21-2008 04:19
speaking of one eyes, here's a good one!
Attachment: BobandTom-ToddSnider-OneEyedLove32Kbps.wma (669k)
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 06-21-2008 11:49
Thats great stuff!! I love the Bob and Tom show.

jrw159
Parent - By UCSB (**) Date 06-23-2008 16:25
One eye?

I have been CWI for 20+ years.
When I was 6 years old, I was hit in the eye with an arrow.
I have been legaly blind in one eye most of my life.
On the plus side it kept me out of 'Nam- I was listed 1-H on the draft. Even when I tried to join, they said "No Way".
I never considered myself as "handicapped"-- visually impaired, yes.
A few years ago I went through several surgeries, and with the technology available today, I can now read better with my "bad" eye than I can with the "good" eye.
Depth perception?--- never was good at shooting baskets or hitting baseballs, and my lady tells me I follow too close when I drive-- but I am a good shot with the rifle-- love to hunt!

Roger
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 06-19-2008 19:14
I'm not offended, I was just interested in why this might have come up that's all.  Keep on, keepin on!!!
Parent - By snuffman (***) Date 06-22-2008 01:41
I agree, as long as he or she can complete the task at hand in a timely fashion, to the qaulity necessary, and safely. One or two eyes shouldn't come into question.
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 06-20-2008 00:48
I have tested several one eye welders over the year. Some were jam up, some had issues. One guy had a glass eye with $ for the eyeball.
ANd yes, he could pass the test, butt and branch and did it as fast as any other welder.
And I have not seen where AWS requires 2 eyes. Just be able to pass the color-blind and Jager. I gyess that would be 20  sight instead of 20/20?
BABRT's
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-20-2008 14:19
The only time I've seen a requirement for the welder to pass the acuity test with both eyes have been for 1595. I don't have my D17.1 handy, so I can't verify if they have watered down that requirement.

As a welder, I know that it is difficult to "see" the joint when one eye is shielded from the arc. The depth perception is one factor in being able to see the weld puddle and to know where the end of the electrode is relative to weld puddle.

As is the case with driving an automobile, you can drive with one eye, but there is a definite lack of depth perception and it does impact the driver's ability to know where he is relative to the car in front of him/her.

If the welder is doing fine work on small components or if he/she has to reach inside a structure to weld it, depth perception can be an important factor in producing acceptable welds. If the welding is for a structural application where the work is located on a horse and a great deal of finesse is not required,  one eye may be sufficient. I can't imagine sending a person with one eye up a ladder or scaffold to weld. That would be an invitation for disaster.

One problem with welding is the occurrence of eye injuries. With two eyes, if the accident is severe enough to cause permanent damage to one eye, there is a second eye that will most likely be functional. With one eye to start with, if it is injured the only fall back position is the white cane. I think all of us have to give some thought to the consequences of losing our eyesight completely. I do believe I would look for a different occupation if I only had one good eye.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By johnnyh (***) Date 06-20-2008 14:51
Al,

That's a good point on the injury issue.  I had not thought of that until you mentioned it.
Parent - By gshuma (**) Date 06-21-2008 00:43
I have a friend, recently retired, that had a 50+ year career of welding and climbing steel. I'm sure he was never tested but his work was first class in every aspect.
He only had one eye.
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 06-20-2008 16:42
As I sit here eating my roast beef and swiss and read this thread I think back to all those times in the free flood of submarines, all pretzeled up and can't barely see with even one eye what I was welding on, and in a mirror to boot.  So I don't see how just one good eye could be considered a bad thing at all.
Parent - - By stever (**) Date 06-20-2008 20:54
CSDenney,

You've shown that there is a document making a statement about one eye. Thanks. That's a beginning.
I haven't seen any references to documents about welders, only CWI. I guess that as so many have expressed there are none.

Being a pipe welder in a construction crew many years ago I worked with a fitter who lost an eye to a wire wheel that someone forty feet away was using. Joe was a great fitter, but hated having to climb because of the eye. He would climb to get the job done, but it took much longer because he was being very cautious of hand holds and foot placement. He told me that he was never sure that when he reached for something that he would actually touch it or miss it.
I dated a girl who had both eyes but had no depth perception. Why? I never understood. I did not like riding with her as the driver. I always drove.
Parent - By JTMcC (***) Date 06-22-2008 00:54
One of the better welders I know, and everyone I know is a pipeline welder, has one eye, the left one.
I've worked jobs with him in the firing line, on tie-ins, and as the welder foreman. He is running the fab on a large pipeline job in Texas right now.
He's as fast as any, and pretty slick as well. Anyone considering "one-eyed welders" as uncapable is just plain stupid. If the man/woman can make the welds to the required standard, in a timely fashion, who cares if he has a glass orb in his skull????

JTMcC.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-30-2008 11:05
I can definitely relate to that comment bozaktwo1!!!
Now if one uses two mirrors, then one "can see clearly now!!!"

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By JHarlos (**) Date 06-23-2008 23:05
I used to weld with an older weldor that could not see for crap, and he was the bead hand. When he got glasses his welds suffered. So seeing it isnt as important as doing it.
Parent - By Jim12 (**) Date 06-26-2008 00:15
d14.3 section 8
8.1 scope. the qualification tests described herein are especially designed to determine the ability of the welding personnel to produce sound welds.

" simply put suggest to them that taking the class does not guarantee they can pass a test reguardless of being impaired or not"
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Question about welder with one eye

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