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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / amps vs wire feed speed
- - By hogan (****) Date 06-23-2008 21:00
We recently had a machine in for service due to a voltage fluctuation. While trying to set up the machine i noticed a difference in the amps vs wire feed speed. Prior to service it would run .045 metalcore at 32v 300a and 515 in/min. Now the fluctuation problem is gone but the settings are at 32v 300a and 440 in/min. What will cause this?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-24-2008 01:19
Thats a really good question

I was looking at manufacturers specs for Corex Metal-Cor 6 and their paramater sheet lined right up pretty close with you at 300A  30V @ 520 ipm.

300a @ 400 ipm sounds closer to solid wire output.

Do you have other machines you can measure the same wire against?  There may be some vairence from power source to power source but not as much as 75 ipm

Did you trigger and clip some wire or do some sort of your own imperical check to make sure the Wire Feed is actually squirting out wire at the volume reported @ the feeder?

Thats a pretty big divergence your reporting... Keep us informed on how this goes.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 06-24-2008 14:43
To answer some questions
The imp displayed on the unit was checked, run 6 sec x by 10, and is consistent.
The amp/volt's have been verified with a recently calibrated meter. readings are consistent.
The 32v  300a 440imp seems to be what I'm getting. the weld produced was much wider than typical up to 1/2", but usually 3/8" and you can tell it is wanting more imp. There is undercutting and a lot of heat input is obvious. increased travel speed = lower heat, more undercut. decreased travel = more heat and an .045" wire that can not produce a fillet smaller than 1/2" in flat. Looks like it might need more work.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 06-24-2008 15:50
The arc/puddle sounds like it's starved.

Couple of questions

## Is your process automated?
## Is the operator observing a taller arc column? (undercut and wide puddle comming from a longer and more bell shaped arc)

I guess there are two ways to proceed

** Try to figure out what happend and why the change occured.
## Just make parameter adjustments to get the bead profile and fusion you need by reducing voltage and changing travel speed and ammend WPS when you find the sweet spot.

I think a reductions of voltage by 1/2 volt incriments will solve the undercut but the reduced WFS will require travel speed reduction and may have other effects such as distortion. Also, if your process is mechanized this will mean more arc on time and less production if you make the most simple paramter adjustments. The same is true for manual work but may be less of a consern unless it is a high speed line.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 06-24-2008 16:21
I do like this wire and it ability to deposit a lot of metal. +13 lb's an hour for .045" at 32 and 300. The reduction to get it to run correctly drops that rate to 9lb or lower. It's a manual application. I don't think this unit will make it to production without further work. Knowing that it is not operating correctly, I have reservations using it without performing some mechanical testing due to the apparent higher heat input ( It's not slight, It's obvious ). Unfortunately i do not have access to hardness or tensile testing here. Also, as you have stated, the concern with distortion.
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 06-24-2008 16:32
Actually a bend would probably tell a lot.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 06-24-2008 01:55
Hello hogan, it is possible that while troubleshooting and servicing the problem with your uneven voltage output issues that the technician may have readjusted one or more of the pots on the circuit board and altered the feed output speed of this particular feeder. I believe there are circuits that control things such as motor torque, ramp-up speeds, and other such motor control parameters that could directly affect wire speed. He may have given the feeder the complete once-over and the results have been noted by you as a difference from your previous settings. As Lawrence suggested, you may want to give it a quick check by doing the feed and time routine to verify the actual feed rate. Either 6 seconds of feed and then multiply the wire length by ten, or 10  seconds of feed and then multiply the wire length by 6. See how close this comes to the setting on the feeder speed dial and take it from there. A bit more for consideration. Best regards, Allan  
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 06-24-2008 02:13
  It might be wise to measure the actual voltage and amperage V/S what the machine reads. If You were having a voltage problem before it could be that the readings were inacurate before due to whatever was causing the fluctuation. If the voltage & amperage and feed rate check out now, one of them must have been inacurate previously.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 06-24-2008 17:36
The first thing to do is check the meters to verify they are in good operating order. Check them while the machine is operating under a load (they have load banks for this)  and check the voltage and amperage against a master voltmeter and ammeter to see they are accurate.

Then verify you are using the same shielding gas and the same electrode extension. The amperage with vary as you increase or decrease the electrode extension. The voltage sould not vary (by much) as you alter the electrode extension provided you are using a constant potential power supply.

You should also compare the wire feed speeds used previously and what is currently used.

Most manufacturers will provide the welding parameters on their web sites.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 06-25-2008 08:27
Hi hogan!!!

I believe that both Al's are barking up the right tree - so to speak! ;)
Just to add to both Al's & Larry's suggestions which I would also follow the same initial course of action, I would also check to see if the wire feed motor has an encoder in it as most do... there should be a cover plate on one end of the motor that houses the encoder... If the technician did a thorough once over, and either found that the encoder or any of it's other components was not installed or working properly then there may have been a reason to open that end of the motor to have a look see and finally, there's always the slight possibility that when checking the encoder wheel, it might have been loosened from it's original position, or harmed inadvertently, or reseated in a different position by the tech when they closed the cover plate, and if the encoder is reseated, and not corresponding to the WFS pot position as to it's own starting point of resistance in relation to what was originally being fed back to the microprocessor board either in the wire feeder or to the power source itself, the possibility could occur, and thus be the root cause of the problem... Then again, this is pure speculation on my part!!! :) :) :) Btw, what brand are referring to here? Did you call the technician or who they represent to see if they could offer an explanation???

There are many possible scenarios that can be ultimately the root cause of the problem you're encountering so, I would cover all of the bases when troubleshooting this type of problem because, who knows!!! It may end up being something as simple as the tension adjustment on either the drive rolls, or even a misalignment of the rolls, or the spool tension needs adjustment, the possibility of an obstruction of some sort in the conduit which would not always directly affect the constant rate of wire feed... Instead, the constant feeding of wire is slower as a result and so on...

If you eliminate the simple but often overlooked possibilities, then you're left with the more complicated electro-mechanical, or electronic components at both the wire feeder and the power source. always refer first to the maintenance & troubleshooting guide in the operating manuals, then check to see if there are available schematics online @ the manufacturer's website if you're able to troubleshoot electro-mechanical & electronic components based on what the specs in the schematic & other given specs found in the operating manual dictate, and if you're still at a loss, then call the manufacturer's customer service line... That is, unless it's a problem that's still covered under the manufacturer's warranty because, you'll automatically void it if you try to troubleshoot, and attempt to make the repair only to find out later that you were unsuccessful in doing so. That's the best I can offer to you right now hogan. :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 06-25-2008 16:39
Thanks all for the advise
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / amps vs wire feed speed

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