B5.1 Questions

By Gregory Lakics Date 06-24-2008 16:15

How many of you CWI's have noticed that the B5.1 has become intertvined itself into the QC1.
The B5.1 is no where near being the standard the QC1 has become.
First 6.2 dictates that a written test must be given and pass the test...........DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING !!!!!! Pass with what score?????? 70% only applies to high school. Not college or above. So theoretically I can give a test to a student, and pass him/her with a 50%. The QC1 has specific numbers of questions and percentile passing. The B5.1 also states that a percentage of questions must be asked on a test subject yet none of the totals add up to be 100%.........Is this left up to the instructor to determine what they feel should be added above and beyond to total the 100%?????????
The subjects for qualifications of AWI, WI, and SWI do not match the sections for testing. You have to almost cross refrence your training classes with what will be tested using a large database.
Also, as a CWI changing to CWE status............
If I give courses in the specified subject areas and with everything passing including eye exams. There is NO WHERE stated that I CAN NOT certify an AWI, WI, or SWI myself, without AWS authority.

I would like to see other peoples input because it seems to me the QC1 CWI certificate is becoming watered down........

By 803056

Date 06-24-2008 17:48

The B5.1 and QC1 are "sister" documents.

B5.1 states the requirements to qualify the individual. Notice there is no reference to the CWI or SCWI in B5.1. You are correct in stating that you can set up an in-house program to provide the training, experience, and examinations to qualify inspectors for your organization or even your clients. The inspectors will be certified to your in-house program.

QC1 tell you what has to be done to become an AWS certified inspector. That is where the test score requirements are stated. QC1 is where you see the requirements listed (by referencing portions of B5.1) to become a CAWI, CWI, or SCWI, i.e., the three levels of AWS certified welding inspectors.

The separation of qualification and certification and education at AWS is their means of meeting what were thought to be ISO requirements. There are some that question the validity of that approach and whether it is required by ISO. Never the less it is what it is.

At least that's how I understand the system. "I may not be right, but I'm never wrong" as one of my friends is fond of saying. I wish I could say the same.

Best regards - Al

By Gregory Lakics Date 06-24-2008 18:39

Thanks Al,
I understand QC1 takes precedence over the AWI,CWI & SCWI. And the B5.1 over the qualifications of Welding Inspectors (Not certified by AWS). However these sisters should not share parts of each others closets. As you said, ISO requiring the seperation of qualification, certification, and education can not be validated by the combination of 2 standards. Thats writing extra policy to justify the original policy. I have been certifying comapnies to ISO-9000, API-Q1, AISC, AASHTO, ......etc systems for 25 years. And I would have contested this if it were a finding in an audit.
If I am not mistaken......we now have a guideline (lower level) to make sure we have the qualifications, experience to qualify and maintain a (higher level) certification...........................
I am not argueing the point I am just confused.
I would be interested in being on the sub committee for the B5.1.

Thanks again Al for the input it did clarify some things. Can you help with the pass fail issue % of passing. I would normally use 70% however. Or 72% according to the QC1.

Greg

By 803056

Date 06-25-2008 14:53

If you are qualifying and certifying in-house welding inspectors, the minimum test score required to pass is a decision you make. If you want the inspector to be AWS certified, it's a decision AWS (QC1 committee) makes.

As for separating the two committees, i.e., qualification and certification, I understand (third hand) that the AWS was convinced by an individual that was on staff that it was a requirement. Now that the individual is no longer with AWS opinions have changed, but the system is already in place.

My recommendation has been that AWS always ship both standards together. I don't know that staff has been adopted that as standard practice.

One of my concerns is that the problem doesn't show up with just B5.1 and QC1. It is a problem with all of the qualification/certification programs offered by AWS. You need two documents to figure out what has to be done to become certified by AWS. In one respect is is good in that a company can adopt the qualification document (BX.X) and set up an in-house program, but the individual that wants to become AWS certified is left scratching their noggin wondering what to do one they read the B document. They may not understand there is a companion document explaining the AWS certification scheme.

Contact Miami if you are interested in participating on a committee. They have a form for you to complete and it gets directed to the appropriate committee for consideration. Each committee has a designated number of committee members, so you may not get on the main committee right away, but you will most likely be asked to serve on a subcommittee. Currently, I am looking for individuals interested in serving on a couple of my subcommittees: Certified Welding Technician and Certified Welding Educator subcommittees. Remember, you have to pay for your own travel, lodging, and meals. AWS pays for nothing, unless you are in Miami and they make a coffee pot and tea available.

Best regards - Al