Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Third party Certification for Welder Qualification Test
- - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-01-2008 09:46
Hi All,
Any one can help me to answer my boss as below matter:

Our client's specification mention that Welder Qualification Test shall be inaccordance to ASME IX (and do not mention any more). May I ask you all that the do we need to have third party to witness the WQT?

(Please repeat the Project Specififaction only mention that welders qualification test shall be inaccordance to ASME IX)
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-01-2008 09:50
No, no third party need witness the WQT.  In fact, ASME is nonspecific and only says that an "authorized person" from the company who, literally, could be the floor sweeper.
Parent - - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-03-2008 02:20
Hi Jon20013,
I also have been not see "authorized person", could you please let me know what article says "authorized person" needed for welder performance qualification test?
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-03-2008 07:39
cong; as I'm away on holiday and no codes here at home will have to defer for another to answer but am suggesting wither in the front matter under descriptions of who and what is required for each document type, or in beginning of QW-300.  There was some related and recent discussions but can't recall if it was procedure or performance.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-03-2008 13:23
Don't mean to be short here but I would think that if you are charged with the responsisbility of qualification that a thorough review of Section IX would be in your best interest.
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 07-03-2008 21:04
js55,
I think Cong has a valid question as I cannot find any reference to "authorised" persons in ASME IX. I can find an "organisations representative" mentioned but not "authorised".
Jon,
With all due respect I have to disagree with the "floor sweeper" scenario.
QW 301.2 states "The performance test may be terminated at any stage of the testing procedure, whenever it becomes apparent to the supervisor conducting the tests that the welder or welding operator does not have the required skill to produce satisfactory results."
IMHO the code is inferring that the person conducting the tests must have the knowledge / experience to be able to judge a persons welding ability.
Hope you have a good R&R,
Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 07-03-2008 23:14
You should have a quality manual which determines who will witness the test. If you do not have a quality manual, or a quality program, you could have any SD sign the welder qualification.
If you are qualifying welders they have to be qualified to a WPS with a PQR. Who wrote these and qualified them?
Do you have a QC manager or someone assigned that responsibility?
BABRT's
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-04-2008 00:20
BINGO!!

Nice call BigK! :-)

jrw159
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-04-2008 01:00 Edited 07-04-2008 01:07
Shane, etal; while I agree with what your saying, the exact words I used were taken from an ASME Forum (not the one you and I have shared Shane) but said forum is hosted by an authorised inspection agency, so those responses are, I suppose, of greater knowledge than my own.  "Duly authorised," by the company (even if the word "authorised" is not specifically stated)... it is the company that has ultimate responsibility for it's actions.

I also have to side with js55 in his response, all too often we get questions from those would SHOULD know what the codes say, but instead of doing their homework and reading for endless hours as many of us have, they tend to try finding the easy answers.

Further, the original question only asked if ASME IX requires a Third Party witness, which it does not.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-04-2008 01:18
Can you work to ASME section IX without a quality system/program?

jrw159
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-06-2008 22:31
Yes
Parent - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-07-2008 06:31
Jon is correct,
I also think that we can work with ASME IX standard without ASME certification system
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-07-2008 13:01
Please don't take this as a criticism, just a clarification.

In my opinion, no work is performed in accordance with ASME Sec IX. That code is used ONLY for qualification of welders and procedures.

In Asme Sec IX, a quailty system is referred to 11 times. In codes of construction, a system is required.

A quality system is a VERY important part of an organizations ability to produce a quality product.

Who really cares how a welder is qualified IF nobody is instructed on when or how to inspect the welds ? Where does acceptance criteria come from.

If someone were to build me a trailer and their method for certifiying their welders was to have t he person weld a mitered corner joint on a piece of 2"x1/4" L and then cut it apart to verify at least 80% penetration on the butt portion and 60% on the corner portion and then called out in their system how t he inpect the production welds, have a quality imporvement system based upon customer feedback, purchase and control materials, control other special process besides welding, etc. They would never have to mention a code.

I go to another shop and they say, "We qualify our welder in accordance with the current rules set forth in the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code"

I'm going with the 1st one. The other one is blowing smoke.

The codes are NOT a replacement for a quality system. I think that sometimes using them is a COPOUT for a quality system.

With all respect for the person making the original post, I would strongly suggest obtaining a copy of the code. Referencing some paragraphs that may be unclear to you may get more feedback.

If you do not have a code book or a quality system, could you tell us what product you manufacture?

Have a nice day.

Gerald Austin
Parent - - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-07-2008 06:33
So final confirmation, do you all agree that we can qualified ASME welders without third party certification?
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-07-2008 13:03
What is the reason that you believe you cannot? As far as ASME Sec IX goes, the ONLY organization that can certify a welder is the Manufacturer. Other parties may prepare the coupons or specimens etc.

As I indicated above, what product do you manufacturer, build or repair?
Parent - - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-08-2008 06:24
I think your question is not necessary, as above little my question is "Do we need third party certification for welder qualification if we qualified welder according to ASME IX?" just liket that only...
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-08-2008 11:53
I was curious as to what type of product  you build. I didn't think that would be a difficult question to answer. It appears many of your questions have been answered.

Hopefully you were not offended.

Gerald
Parent - - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-09-2008 01:58
It is not confidential, I said that because I don't want you to misunderstand my mind.
I am working for process piping system and I am going to qualified our welder by myself without third party certification, I am confusing now can we qualified our welder myself?
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-09-2008 04:00
I think Para 328.1 of ASME B31.3 will answer your question. Take a look at that and let me know if that helps. If that is the code you are using for the project.
Parent - - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-10-2008 01:42
Thank alot,
When I read the para. 328.1 of ASME B31.3 then I see it is not required third party certification for welder qualification test, and the para. also said that we should qualified welder follow instruction in ASME IX? Is it correct?
So, finally, how do you think about my question above?
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 07-10-2008 11:31
I think that unless the project specification add to the requirements of the codes required for construction, then all you need worry about is compliance with the codes and any requirements placed upon you by the quality system of the company.

And as mentioned before, any local laws that may address this type of work.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 07-08-2008 12:11
Your asking a loaded question for which the answer is two parts.
1. By the code alone, yes you can.
2. Some quotes from section IX you need to be aware of:

"Participation by federal agency representative(s) or person(s) affiliated with industry is not to be interpreted as government
or industry endorsement of this code or standard."

"This code does not address other safety issues relating
to the construction of boilers, pressure vessels, transport
tanks and nuclear components, and the inservice inspection
of nuclear components and transport tanks. The user of
the Code should refer to other pertinent codes, standards,
laws, regulations, or other relevant documents"

Pay particular attention to the usage and context of the words Government, laws, and regulations.
While Section IX usually is sufficient in the states, it is not always sufficient in a stand alone capicity for other countries.
There may in fact be a hidden requirement in the laws of your home country that require a third party, or in relevant standards,
and regulations.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - By cong nguyen (**) Date 07-08-2008 06:25
Thank you all....
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Third party Certification for Welder Qualification Test

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill