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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Verification board
- - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-02-2008 15:36 Edited 07-02-2008 15:42
Hello Everybody,
  I am posting this for all to see and any input, ideas, advice, and criticism is more than welcome. While it is fairly self explanitory, I will go through it. All shop personnel that use measuring and verifying devices must insure that they are accurate per IAS. I have calibrated to a traceable standard, the two squares and the torpedo level. The squares were then attached to the board using the calibrated level to insure plumb, level, and 45 degree angle. We then pull the employees one at a time up once a week. They bring thier tools, and thier employee # is engraved on all tools. Then we verify both the inside and outside of the large squares, as well as the outside and the 45 of the med. and small squares. Then the tape is verified. The level is verified against the small square, verifying plumb, level and 45 for both sides of the level. This is documented and filed away.

jrw159

EDIT: OK some of the pic's did not come out well, but with these I think one can get the general idea of it.
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Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-02-2008 19:15
Very instructive and good photos!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-02-2008 19:25
Well thank you Al. :-)

It sure put the "Quite" on the IAS auditors for the subject of what the refer to as calibration and I see more as verification.

jrw159
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 07-06-2008 18:26
Good stuff John.

Recently I came up on a new hire (without tools) using MY new 2' square as a hammer to "tap" a PVC  IPS flange onto a 6" PVC pipe. He was striking the raised face also.

I thought about recalibrating the square on his...
:)
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-06-2008 21:16
Yeah, I know what you mean.

They are not hammers, but I have seen them used that way rather than taking a couple of steps to get one. LOL :-)

John
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-06-2008 23:27
John
Impressive approach to verifying employee tools with the calibrated and traceable standards.

I have a few questions if you don't mind:

1 ) Why is your verification frequency once-a-week? Is that dictated by IAS or a company stipulation?

2 ) What is the tolerance allowance when using the torpedo level to verify your standards and tools?

3 ) Does IAS require a written procedure for this verification process? Is the documentation of the results also an IAS requirement?

4 ) How long have you had this method implemented and can you give us an idea of your measurable net savings (after all verification costs) since doing so?

Thank you.

ziggy
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 12:49
Ziggy,

#1-The frequency is our choice. We chose once a week as a starting point. I feel that with what we do that every day is too much, and once a month is not enough.

#2-When verifying levels, out of bubble is out of tolerance. Squares are out of tolerance when 1/16 out at far end and 1/32 anywhere else.

#3-Yes and yes.

#4-We have just implimented this so cost savings are pending. I do not see his as a big cost saver other than not losing our certification, IE staying in compliance. We have less than $350.00 in cost sunk into this. That includes the cost of the tools as well as the cost of calibration of said tools, as well as man hours to set it up. It takes about five minutes per employee for the process. Less for some since all they have is a tape.

All in all this is a compliance issue. I may have gone a bit overboard but when dealing with entities such as IAS/AISC/ISO I feel that one is better off to slightly exceed (when realistic of course) the standard. So for about $350.00 we have squashed the issue of calibration/verification of the measuring tools used in production.

jrw159
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-07-2008 13:34
John,

Thanks for the answers.

If I could, just a couple more questions:

1) As for the cost savings, were you having compliance issues prior to instituting your verification procedure?

2) Were the costs of nonconformances (in-process, final, field corrections due to shop n/c) outweighing the costs of this verification procedure (set-up, performance, record keeping, etc.)?

3) I understand that this process is relatively new, but have you noticed any variations in nonconformances since beginning this process?

Thanks again

ziggy
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 14:01 Edited 07-07-2008 14:08
Ziggy,
 
#1- Only noncompliance with IAS AC472. We were not having a product nonconformance, we were not compliant with IAS AC472 8.1.6

#2-Costs involved with this would only be recertification/renewal of IAS certification if it were suspended or revoked due to noncompliace. Product was not really effected.

#3-Again, this was not because we were having problems with the product not conforming to spec's, we were not in compliance with IAS.

So to put it in simple terms, IMHO, this was a hoop we had to jump through for IAS, and I only wanted to have to jump through it one time. However I do feel that it is a neccessary process, as our welders, just like any shop, are a little rough on tools they do not purchase themselves. Also combine this with the fact that the tool room attendants do not just hand out new equipment with the greatest of ease, and the shouldn't. LOL Now there is a clear cut process for determining when a tool needs to be replaced.

jrw159 :-)
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-07-2008 16:17
Thanks John.

I have observed many different approaches to calibration / verification of standards / tools.

I am concerned about over-production; adding costs where we don't have to. Thus my questions to you.

Unfortunately, some shops have, with the best of intentions, over-produce and then are not been compensated for it.

Please do not take this as a criticism of your verification method. It looks straightforward / uncomplicated; low cost. And I do not mean to imply that you are over-producing. Calibration / verification have there place.

Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated!

ziggy
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 17:22
Ziggy,
  I fully understand where you are coming from. This was something I wanted to avoid. I often find myself in the situation of haveing to find that "happy medium" so to speak. As low on cost as possible with the biggest effect. I did go top of the line with the "traceable" items with the feeling that this was where I wanted the most dependable tools, but even at that I have less than $75.00 on the board.  I think the wood cost more than the tools. I had each item calibrated for $50.00 totaling $150.00

I do feel that I probably could have done this for a little less, but I think that even high end is not to bad.

As far as criticism goes, I invite constructive criticism, it builds character and betters me in the long run. :-)

Thanks for your input,
John
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 17:27
John,

Just a note...do you have to verify every tool on the shop floor or just the inspection tools? For our AISC certs we just verify the inspection tools. We used to check every tool but it took alot of time given the number of fitters that we employ.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 17:47
Yes, we verify all measurement tools used in production. This takes about five minutes for each employee. This includes the time to gather the tools and walk to the test station, verify and return. We kind of work this as we go through the day so I do not have a cut and dry time frame for all employee's totaled as of yet. We have a fairly small shop so it is, at this time, quite manageable.

Depending on the results from week to week, I may back off to every other week or once a month, but most likely will stick with weekly.

How often do you verify?

Do you feel that once a week is too much, too little?

John
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 17:59
LOL....we verify only the final inspection tools once a year. Fillet weld gages verified against a certified master, tape lines tensioned with pull handle against a certified master, squares are verified using the 3,4,5 rule,(I also draw a line on both legs, flip it 90* and redraw the lines to see that they hit on top of the previous lines).... I verify one un-used square that is in my office and then check the inside and outside of each square used in final inspection with that one.
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-07-2008 18:41
Yeah, we do our "master sets" every six months along with our multimeter and temp gun. I think that is when I will do the set on the board.

Thanks for the input,

John
Parent - - By ziggy (**) Date 07-07-2008 22:19
John Wright -

Nice to see your post on this!

How often do you send out your "masters" that you use to calibrate / verify your inspection tools?

ziggy
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-08-2008 10:15
Good Morning Ziggy!,
We wrote in our QC manual to say that we only need to send out our masters for recertification "if they show signs of wear or become suspect", they are only used once a year to verify a few tools, and the rest of the time they are kept in a safe place, so there shouldn't be any wear for quite a long time(hard tools).....however, electronic gages like DFT and R/H/Dew point gages...ect....all get sent back to the mfg for recertification/calibration annually or if during the year they become suspect...but what I call hard tools are the master tapeline, master fillet weld gages...etc...I see no need to send them back for recertification, unless something is obviously wrong with them.

We don't build watches, so the tolerances that we work to are fairly generous compared to other fabricating industries....(+/- 1/16" is a huge tolerance to some folks).
Parent - By ziggy (**) Date 07-08-2008 12:28
Hello John-

That sounds reasonable to me. Thanks

ziggy
Parent - - By 5S Date 07-08-2008 14:59
Greetings,
What are IAS and AISC?
By the way, great idea for the checking theses types of measuring instruments.

Thanks,
Dave
Parent - By ziggy (**) Date 07-08-2008 16:21
Dave

IAS - International Accreditation Service    www.iasonline.org

AISC - American Institute of Steel Construction    www.aisc.org

ziggy
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Verification board

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