Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Welding downhill?
- - By Tommy S Date 07-08-2008 05:16
Hi, my names tommy. I am 6g certified (Stick) and was wondering why people weld vertical down. I was allways tought to weld vertical up. in my opinion you get better penetration and dont have the possibility of the flux dripping on or covering the puddle. If you have a defect in the previous pass how do you "cook" it out without having the puddle run? Should i teach myself how do it?
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-08-2008 14:10
I've always been curious to this to,  I was always taught to run uphill because I was told if you know how to weld uphill downhill will be much easier, but I don't stick weld at all anymore. All the production MIG I did was vertical down as you get a faster travel speed and it was on gauge metal so penetration wasn't a concern.

I think a lot depends on the fluidity of the puddle whether it forms a slag shelf etc, some electrodes are near impossible to run well either up or down due to these characteristics
Parent - - By Tommy S Date 07-08-2008 16:39
Thank you for your input. I agree with you on the mig thin gauge, I do the same. The 7018 electrode is almost like welding with water! You can take your time, get a rythem, stack it, and it comes out beautiful. but V-down?
Parent - - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 07-08-2008 23:03
Well you dont weld DH with 7018 It is a uphill rod. (I know it is a all position but...) DH requires a cellulose flux rod XX10 series.
UH is used primarily in plant piping and DH is used on pipelines. When the thickness is less than 1/2 inch, DH will win the speed contest. Over 1/2 inch LH will win the race. In a lot of plants, they use LH to be sure a DH weld does not get used in a service which would require a LH weld.

It boils down to fitness for service. Thinner materials,DH, heaver LH. There is a lot more to it than this but this is basic.
BABRT's
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-09-2008 13:46
dbk,
thats about as good and concise an explanation of it as i've ever seen.
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-09-2008 15:15
Also, as far as trapping slag on a downhill pass:

That is why you would use a lot of heat on the second pass, (hot pass).

Enough heat will burn out any slag in your wagon tracks.

The bottom line on downhill welding is speed. A good pipeliner can exceed the specs with dh rod in a fraction of the time it takes to run lh, OR dh uphill.

Many moons ago when I was just testing, I was taught to run everything, (including the root), uphill.
Parent - - By rockin d (**) Date 07-10-2008 02:19
2yrs ago i went to work for a company that was going to run a pipeline  not to far from my house can't remember exact miles , but we were going to cross under a hwy & their test was dot specs . 6G bead up hill hot pass up hill  lohi the way out after hot pass I thought i had seen it done it NOPE  that was one for the books, bead i could handle but hot pass  I was worried about bustin through , make a long story short I passed  just ran on the cold side .  learn something new everyday...
Parent - - By Sourdough (****) Date 07-10-2008 20:17
Hot pass with what? I'm thinking low hy, right?
Parent - By rockin d (**) Date 07-10-2008 23:58
no sir  70+ 5/32 when i got to test lab i fig 6G  6" max 1 hr  when they told me procd. i put on the brakes, i was late to test they closed @ 4: 00 it was @2:00 went back in the morn  to get fresh start.
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 07-09-2008 04:08 Edited 07-09-2008 04:17
Like Big K said. It's all in the application. On ASME steam piping, 6010 root, 7018 fill & cap all uphill is a general rule of thumb. API pipeline is generally always done with a cel flux rod, just like Big K said, downhill.

It's all just a matter of the work you're doing & the procedure outlined by the specs. Same would apply to structural or even junk iron stuff. On light gauge, non critical welds, a 6010 downhill is going to get the job done & suffice. *Just to clarify: A downhill weld is NOT always a lesser quality weld! Most API downhill is 100% X Rayed to insure proper penetration and low to zero slag inclusions. DH is just better suited, efficient & economical for API work.* On heavier joints requiring deep root penetration & stronger face reinforcement, usually multi pass, 7018 uphill is the ticket. Iron powder type fluxes are not really recommended for downhill welding. The term "All Position" Does not necessarily mean, "Anything Goes" A downhill weld made with 7018 will in many cases tend to trap slag in the weld as it builds up & flows in the direction of gravity. It can be done, but is tricky & usually not the best type rod for a downhill application. this is the easiest way to put it below.....

Steam pipe/Heavy structural= Uphill, Low Hydrogen Rod.

Petroleum pipe/Non critical light sheet= Downhill, Cellulose Based Rod.

Hope that helps! S.W.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / Welding downhill?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill