Is There A Difference From: Lead Free Soder & Lead Free Body

Date 07-10-2008 04:38

There could be several differences between plumbing lead free solder and body solder. In plumbing aplications the solder joint is only a few thousanths of an inch thick, and the solder doesn't really need to have great elongagation. Additionally, the plumbing solder doesn't need to have a plastic range where You can wipe it, it can go from liquid to solid over a small temperature range and still work fine for sweat joints. Eastwood is seldom the cheapest place to get supplies, but the things they sell are at least intended for automotive use.

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 07-10-2008 16:15

Hey DaveBoyer

Thank you 4 your reply. So what your saying is: THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between the 2 soders.

And that's why my over-lapping sheet metal joint FAILED. I didn't use the BODY SODER from: Eastwood.

I'm going to make-up another practice piece to lead. But this time I'll use the BODY SODER.

Thanks 4 clearing things up 4 me Dave.

GOD BLESS

Schooner

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 07-11-2008 04:37

There might be more to it than that, but You did previously have sucsess with the body solder. I noticed that the lead free body solder in Eastwood's cataloge is quite strong compaired to an ordinary lead/tin soft solder. Did You weld the parts before You soldered, or is the solder the only thing holding the repair part in place? The reason I ask, is that there could be considerable force developed if one part cools faster than the other, and this might be part of the proiblem. How did the plumbing solder handle? Eastwood claims theirs is tin, copper & zink. I don't know about the plumbing solder You got, but some are 95/5 tin/antimony, the roll I have been using [for copper pipe] lately is tin, silver, copper & antimony. The MSDS might tell You.

Eastwood is in My home town, thanks for supporting a "local" business.

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 07-11-2008 16:49

Hey DaveBoyer

Yes I did spot (mig weld) the practice patch piece.

I tined the piece and wiped it clean leaving a nice shiney surface. I went in with the Lead Free Body Soder that I bought from Eastwood Co. And 4 some reason the joint FAILED.

It was my first practice piece using Eastwoods L/F/B/Soder.

I had NO problem use the L/F/B/Soder doing the floor pans in my project Mustang build.

So after I come back from a 3 day car show in Cedar City Utah with my beautiful wife and my brand new '08 Ford GT Mustang 'BULLETT' I'll try again.

I let you know how I made-out with me 2nd try.

Thanks again 4 your replies.

GOD BLESS

Schooner

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 07-12-2008 04:42

'08 GT - COOL!!! What is under the hood on the one You are restoring?

Years back (when they were cheap & plentyfull) a friend had a '67 Fastback 390 with a lot of the GT trim on it and a GT390 from a Fairlane GT in it. He stripped all the paint off it and parked it in the barn for years, having built a house, gotten married & had kids in the mean time. He sold that car, and still sort of regrets it.

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 07-13-2008 23:20

Hey DaveBoyer

I have the 289 engine in stored, wrapped in seran wrap. Its been to the machist. Bored out 30ths.
Balanced all the nescassary parts; Flywheel, pistons and crankshaft.

I'm in the process of mig welding the floor pans in and other rusty spots.

This is my FIRST rebuild so I'm learning and reading and asking and doing.

Whew! sometimes is gets a bit rough and just have to walk away 4 awhile and then come back refreshed.

Thanks 4 asking.
GOD BLESS

Schooner

P.S. Have you done any restorations on classics or any car ? Like mig welding ?

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 07-14-2008 04:06

I wouldn't call what I have done restoration. When I was a teenager in the mid to late '70s I did put some new sheetmetal in rusted out cars. The small MIG units were not real common then, or at least My friends & I didn't know of them. We brazed or gas welded [or even used pop rivets] primarily to get the cars through state inspection. I replaced one side of the floor in My '66 Austin Healy Sprite with parts I had bent at a sheetmetal shop, the repair sections available today were not available at the time, or We didn't know where to get them.

I sold a '65 Falcon Futura a few years ago that had been Our family car from new, when I realised I was never going to get arround to restoring it. I ground it to bare metal and a friend painted it in '78 or '79, but I never put it back together [trim, grill, bumpers, taillights, etc.] When I sold it it needed paint again, and the floor was starting to rust out.

There is a guy who posts as "Yorkiepap" sometimes on this site, He has done pretty much car restoration work. If You see a post from Him You might pick His brain about it.

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 07-14-2008 04:41

Hey DaveBoyer

Thanks 4 the heads-up 2 look 4 that guy: Yorkiepap.

I'll go on the hunt 4 him A.S.A.P.

Thanks so much.

GOD BLESS

Schooner

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 07-25-2008 13:32

Hey SCHOONER,
I want to apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I did get your e-note and haven't had time to respond to provide you with some tips to help you. OK... here are my methods for great results with the classics:

1. All metal seams have to be really clean. I MIG tack the entire panel, usually 2" apart with aluminum backing strips to avoid burnthru and warping. This is for all the interior panels, ie. floorpans, kickpads, trunk panels, inner fenderwells, and attaching panels such as the seat support panels. I MIG welded the entire inner panels on the '68 Mustang Cobra GT for my friend Dave Currie. I used my Miller Sidekick 110V to get the entire panel welding done and it worked quite well. All welding was with ER70S-6 ,.023, & C25. This combo is hard to beat with thin panel welds. After the tacks were finished, I MIG welded the entire inner seams alternating areas & welded 2" at a time. You gotta keep your MIG gun at a 30deg. angle to flatten the puddle & reduce burnthru. All the panel seams are lap joints for superior results and some joints were rolled slightly for the interior floor to kickpad joints for strength. For all the panel to frame welding, I used my 250A spoolgun unit since the heat had to be sufficient for complete fusion & each weld came out like a neat button on the panel. Gotta do some practice to get the "feel" of the weld as the button is forming, and I use a 2"OD, 1/8" thick washer with a 3/4" hole to act as a heat sink for the surrounding area. Works nicely.

2. All exterior surfaces were MIG tacked, again with AL backing strips. I use lead body solder with brush-on flux and made a couple of steel spatulas to smooth out the lead fillets on the seams. I used to watch my uncle do it and I learned from his techniques. I don't like lead-free solder and it is not user friendly with auto panels. The composition of body solder is for the continual flex of the metal and has better elongation characteristics. Since Dave had all new exterior panels from Ford, there was very little exterior work needed done other than some trim areas and a couple of mods he made. I keep the spatulas hot with a small, single element electric heater you can get at any hardware store. Before I got the electric heater, I made a jig to hold the spatulas & used a propane torch to keep them red hot. Either will work.

Schooner, you gotta take your time & do all the necessary prep work to insure superb results. Every panel I welded, I setup my MIG for best results with some scrap pieces of the panel for optimum heat & wirefeed. Many welders are not fond of auto panel work because of the thinness of the sheetmetal and those who do it for a career are quite expensive. You are talking about $100/hr for a good panel welder and more if the fitting is extensive. Working on this Cobra was an honor for me as this is 1 of only 5 of the originals left in existence. They only made 53 of this model. Since the completion, Daves' Cobra has taken 1st place in most of the shows he takes it to. It is a magnificent machine and I am honored to have been selected to work on the restoration. I'll post some photos as soon as I can. If I can help anymore, please let me know. I'll try to steer you in the direction to help you obtain excellent results..... Denny

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 08-04-2008 04:15

Hi Denny

Thank you so much for your reply. You got a lots of tricks from the trade. About an Alumimium Backing Plate. I thought A Copper Backing Plate was the deal ?

I live in Las Vegas was its HOT as you know what. No problem with rust. I practice butt welds, butt (no pun intended...lol) I'm starting to consider over-lapping joints. Hey I can spray with Weld-Thru and don't worry about any so called rust.

I'm practicing on: 18ga. sheet metal with a 1/16th gap. I tack every couple of inches, wait and hit the area with a nice wet rag to stop any kind of WARPAGE. Then I'm going in for the seal weld, still watching my heat and stiching every couple of inches away from the last seal weld (over on the other side of the practice plate.)

Afterwards the plate is sealed and I go in with the grinder (also watching not to stay to long at the fair, not to build-up HEAT from the grinding and probably have WARPAGE.

So there's where I'm at so far.

I going to have to smooth out the seal weld I know.

Question Denny: What's better than using Bondo to cover up the seal weld after I spray it with Weld-Thru again (or Not)
Please let me know what you do and what you think I should do please.

I'm attempting to replace a rusty lower fender area with a patch panel that has a BRACE in back of it. Don't know how I'm going to cut that sucker out ? Any ideas.

My car is: 1966 Ford Mustang Convertible. Area I'm talking about is: Right Lower Side Of Front Fender.

Thank You Denny
GOD BLESS

Schooner

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-04-2008 20:34

Hey SCHOONER,
You're quite welcome.... glad to help.

You can use alum. or copper.....your choice. I just find alum. easier to use because I have a lot of residual scrap pieces of 1" X 1", 1" X 1.5", & 1.5" X 1.5" angle cutoffs from work that usually go to the scrap pile( my scrap pile). Also, I find the angle pieces easier to attach because of configuration.

Try to stay with lap welds, you'll get a better fit & weld. I never use anything like Weld-Thru.....I keep all my joints bare & clean. Keep your MIG gun at a 30 deg. angle so as to keep the puddle flatter and eliminate burn-thru. Keep alternating your weld seams & if you have to, just do 1" at a time. Might take a bit more time, but will really reduce warpage.

If you want to seal the weld seams and have really solid seams, use JB Weld. It might cost a few bucks extra, but you will really have a superb finish. Just mix it in small batches and spread it thinly over your seams. Makes for a really nice finish.

For the front fender, you'll have to either plasma cut, or get a small die grinder with those small 1 1/2" cutoff wheels to get into the tight areas. I also have an air body saw that really can get into tight places & cut like a scroll saw. HF has them inexpensive, you just gotta get some good blades.

Sounds like you're going to have a sweet ride when you're done. Post some pics. When you get it all done and roadworthy, you will be glad you took the extra time & effort. Others will comment on it to be sure. I know that Dave, the owner of the Cobra I did, was pleased I talked him into insuring we had every piece cut & matched to the closest fitting we could. It took a little more time, but the end results were absolutely superb. All his trophies prove it. Keep at it.... one step at a time. Patience...... do it right the first time.

Good luck..... If I can be of further help....just ask..... Denny

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 08-06-2008 00:33

Hey Denny

Thanks so much 4 your imput, I really appreciate all the good advice you gave me.

I'm seriously thinking of leting a custom body shop do the rest of the body and painting work on my Mustang.

Gee Denny I was so impressed with this guys shop. I was introduced to him by my friend who I drove to the shop to have his car painted.

And low and behold this shop was clean, has everything thing to do the complete restoration job in to. Paint Booth, Welding equipment and a slue of classic cars in the shop.

Its about a 6 man shop but from what the tour showed was very sharp. I looked and the welds (really nice beads) nice finished paint jobs too.

So, the way I'm going its SLOW and my wife thinks its a good ideas to see have this shop do the complete job.

The owner works in the shop and is coming over to the house to look at my classic mustang '66 convertible.

Lets see what he has to say and what's the $ $ $ $ of it all.

At the rate I'm going its going to take another 3yrs. GOD its hard to do restoration work when you NEVER DONE IT -B- 4 ! ! !

I let it in GODS HANDS.

Hey when you think about it my wife is a lawyer (and a damn good one HONEST 2 ) helps more people who don't have $ $ $ and she PRO BONA'S 'EM (that's free/no charge 4 the poor)

Anyway that's whats up with where I am with my car.

Final word: I do have my brand new limited addition 2008 GT Ford Mustang Bullett to run around with: THANK YOU GOD ! ! !

GOD BLESS YOU DENNY
Schooner

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-06-2008 22:06

Hey SCHOONER,
You are most welcome. Yes, the total restoration of a classic takes many hours of meticulous labor and a tremendous amount of patience. You either go into it full bore, or make it a weekend project and have no concern about the time to complete.

Your investigation of this shop is a wise move and every work environment will definitely show the care that will go into the restoration of your car. A shop that is kept clean, organized, and efficient will give you an idea of those who take pride in their work. If there are several classics already there, I would surmise that they have a good reputation, been recommended by other satisfied customers, and have the proper equipment to do the job perfectly the first time. If it's a 6 man shop, that is indicative that they are staffed by those who have a superb expertise at each phase of work that has to be done. Each of the 6 will do his particular area of work and that will result in the smooth transition towards the finished product. Sounds like this shop would do your car some real justice and bring another great classic back to its' heyday of fun for the youngsters who had one. The Cobra of Dave's that I worked on is absolutely gorgeous. He took his time...did it in phases. Not to scare you.... he has $35,000 in it already. The engine alone was 20 grand. His investment was carefully planned, he looked into the return of his investment, and discovered his car was worth at least $250,000 with an offer from a gent in England who wants it desperately.

Schooner, let him give you an estimate.....think about it.....remember all the hours you have already put into it and what you would want to be compensated for all that work. Don't make an immediate decision..... let the thoughts simmer a while with input from your wife. Take an evening, throw a couple of nice thick steaks on the grill, grab a cold beer, and sit & discuss the project with your wife....... It will all come to fruition.

Good luck buddy...... keep us updated. AND!!!! if you do give them the job, take in-progress photos to post here....... Denny

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 08-07-2008 00:55

Hey Denny

Again, THANK YOU SO MUCH 4 your imput. I certainly appreciate it.

Yes, take me time and talk it over with my wife.

Denny, I drove my friend to put up his AVANTI made by Studerbaker ~ Man with a car. Anyway Denny, the shop did one hellva job. They painted the repaired dings and scratches. Came out really very nice. Of course I spoke with the owner and he (Anthony, age around mid 40's) brought me and my buddy into the shop and WOW! Those craftsmen were banging it out. Doing their sanding, mig welding, etc.

Denny he had a '32 Ford truck in the shop looked really sharp.

While in the shop Anthony (owner) and I were talking about what his men were working on. I ask him about MEDIA BLASTING my car, and roughly how much would it $ $ $ . He said he sends the cars out and doesn't make any $ $ $ on that part. He told me around $1,500.00 I sure I can get he down.

Anthony is coming up to the house this coming Saturday around 9:30 ~ 10:00 A.M. to look at my '66 Ford Mustang Convert.

As its stands my car has & is:

1. Has all 4 wheel on.
2. Engine is out, bay is open.
3. Hood is off and in storeage.
4. Seat are out.
5. Steering wheel out.
6. Brake and Clutch panels are out.

If the estimate comes in reasonable he's got the job. The only thing is ~ I don't know just what the price is reasonable ? ? ? I seen a sign in back of the counter that said " LABOR $90.00 PER HOUR. "
Denny that's the only clue I have what the hourly rate is. How does that sound to you ?

What has to come out or off my car

1. Back Bumper.
2. Read Tail Lights.
3. Front Windowshield.
4. Dashboard ~ never took one to 'em out before !
5. Convertible Top and pump assambliy.

I think that's about it.

Again Denny whatever comments you might have on the above please don't hestiate to comment please.

Thanks Again Denny
GOD BLESS

Schooner

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-07-2008 02:31

Hey SCHOONER,
All I can say is to let Anthony look at your car completely and all the parts and the amount of disassembly that has already been done. Those are hours for disassembly that they will not have to do and that will reduce some of the hours. $90/hr is quite reasonable and you have to ask if that is per man hour for the labor on your car. If 2 men are working on it.... is the fee $180.00/hr? If 3 men are working on it.... is the fee $270/hr? See what I mean? Just for peace of mind, let him come and give you a written, detailed estimate of all the procedures that will be done. Don't offer any prices or rates of your own that you are thinking about. Look over the estimate with your wife & examine labor & material prices & determine actual cost. Be sure to query all facets & procedures he will do to be sure you understand all the parameters. Your wifes' understanding of the law will be your greatest asset. Keep us posted on the estimate and your decision..... Good luck..... Denny

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 08-12-2008 06:39

Hi Denny

Well the over the phone estimate came in today.
Anthony said the following:

Media Blasting $1,500.00
Rust Repair $5,250.00
Body Work including prep for paint $3,250.00

Paint roughly $3,000.00 according to the paint we choose. If its a candy its more $

Denny, when Blasting is done, Rust repair done and Body work complete the primer on the car will be rough.

So, without the paint job the cost roughly will be: $ 9,750.00 ~ $10,000.00 that will cover anyother sheet metal parts Anthony might have to buy.
I have most of the parts; i.e. left side inner rocker, toe board, front fl. pan, seat pan and rear fl. pans.

Denny, Anthony's shop is pretty cool. He has a good numbler of cars in restoration and the shop is nice and clear. New paint booth also.

What do you and the other guys think?

Thank Denny for all your imput.
P.S. My wife Alex and I are really thinking of letting Anthony do the job. Oh! before I forget here's the kicker Anthony said three of this car in restoration will be done in a month for now and if he gets my job its will be done in 3 months.

That's it Denny
GOD BLESS YOU

Schooner

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-12-2008 17:15

Hey SCHOONER,
From what you listed, it is evident there is a lot of rust on the car and that will be the most expensive parameter from his estimate. The reason for that amount is the fact he determined there was sufficient deterioration that a lot of replacement metal was necessary. I know, from experience, that rusted areas must be replaced with solid metal. You cannot weld rust. I will not work on rusted panels or metal if the owner is not concerned about crappy areas. If you look at your car, I mean really examine all the metal nooks & crannies, you will see deteriorated metal that has to be replaced. His estimate for the rusted areas looks to insure you will get a great job and not have concerns about rust-thru problems that may arise down the road, so to speak.

SCHOONER, you must engage the understanding about pricing for yourself. You simply have to ask yourself the question: "Is this project worth the investment to me?" It also goes with the majority of expenditures you will face in the future. Every piece of equipment I ever purchased, my personal toys(car/bike/truck), home projects, or anything else, I set a figure on the maximum I am willing to invest. I shop carefully and do a lot of homework to determine if it is "worth it to me". I then make my decision..... quite simple.

Anyway, do your homework & just ask yourself: "Is it worth it to me?" Then, just answer...... Good luck.... Denny

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 08-14-2008 04:48

Hey Denny

I'm learning a lot from you replies ~ Thank You.

Well Denny, I called Anthony and told him he's got the job. HOWEVER, when I told him to draw-up a contract he said something on this bases. " . . . I rather have us come to an agreement and I'll work along with you on the money. A 1/4% down to start and we'll go still the $ runs out and start all over again with more funds."

Spoke to my LAWYER wife (Alex) unbeliveable my wifes speicaly is CONTRACTS! She didn't care 4 the idea of Not Having A Contract Written-up.

What do you think about this matter ?

I'm not taking Anthony's side in this however, how can he write a contract when there are going to be VARIABLES such as: He has to order some sheet metal I didn't have; extra body work.
Alex said, " . . . look I can see running over 10% on the work etc,etc, but he think he's going to come up with an EXTRA $10,000.00 NO WAY ! ! !

Denny my wife got a POINT there.

Your imput please.
Denny are you in the restoration business/or have a shop ?
If so, then you can tell me if you had to write-up a service/repair contract.
If not, have you had any experience with this situation ?

Thank so much Denny
GOD BLESS
Schooner

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-14-2008 05:37

Schooner, for what it is worth, it is hard to accurately estimate the hours on a job like this, and I know You understand this. If a guy quotes a firm price for the work He has to do at least 1 of several things: 1) charge for plenty of extra CYA hours. 2) cut every corner along the way to be sure He doesn't run out of hours before the job is done. 3) Really Really cut corners at the end of the job when He starts to see that He will not get it done in the quoted time. 4) Eat a big loss and do a good job in spite of going over on hours.

Some guys can not afford to or just will not choose option #4.

If You pay as You go You can get a feel for how things are working out, If You are not satisfied with the progress, at least You are only out 1/4 of the money, and You can find another shop of finish it Yourself.

While I understand Your Wife's position on this, You might not find a shop willing to work to a set price and a guaranteed quality level.

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-14-2008 21:18

Hey Schooner,
I gotta agree with Dave Boyer on this one. It can really be difficult to give an exact estimate and a committed contract because of, unfortunately, the "unknowns" when starting a job like yours. My reason for this statement simply comes from all the jobs I have done, the level of completion & quality the customer expects, and after starting, the issues encountered. When I started on Daves' Mustang Cobra, he didn't realize the extra work that had to be done, especially with the fitting of all the panels, and the time needed to get it all fitted correctly with the mating of the seams for an excellent fit. The new panels he got from Ford were NOS, and even then, they had to be cut, bent, fitted, clamped, & then finally tack welded in place. Then the add-ons, such as seat bridge on the floor panels & shifter plate on the tunnel, trunk panel fit for gas tank & battery box, and the fender well to frame/fender fitup. You see, many variables come up & you won't know how much xtra has to be done till you start. It can go smooth..... or can be a nightmare.

I believe Anthony is really giving you the best option by proceeding in stages, and allowing you to maintain a cost-effective approach that benefits you. Not too many places will do that. I would strongly suggest you take his offer. Your wife can monitor the progress & legalities if an issue arises. I know, many times, legal issues can go overboard for no reason.... all it takes is simple common sense & forethought. If money comes into play, you then have to decide that maybe it would be best to stop at a particular phase, go into limbo for a couple months, and then resume when finances allow it. Don't be in a hurry.... sometimes hurrying will create unsuspecting issues down the road.

Schooner, I don't do restorations as a business. I have a general welding operation for repairs, fabrication, machining, and it is a "hobby" operation and I don't do contracts. I got started in the restoration of classic cars with Daves' car because it was such a magnificent project. Word of mouth spread, and I got other jobs, not as elaborate as Dave's, but quite lucrative. Truthfully, I wouldn't do it on a daily basis. I like the adventure of many different kinds of welding, repairs & fabrication each day offers. I will tell you that guys like Anthony are really dedicated when they delve into the world of classic cars & the total restoration of them. It is a love of the end result that keeps them wanting to do more. When summoned to look at a job, I do the best I can to provide sound information the owner of all that has to done to prepare for the welding of the areas being replaced. Most of the fellows do the majority of the prep work and sometimes I have to help them with fitting properly because they don't have the tools or experience to manipulate metal. Usually, I try to keep it to a minimum of hours and/or show them how to do it correctly. That way, everyone is happy & we both are satisfied.

Schooner, I am glad I can help you simply "think" ahead and make sound decisions so you and Anthony can have a very satisfying experience. Work together.....it will benefit you both. Keep us informed of your progress. I do appreciate the value you place on my input. Thanks. Oh, BTW...... each day is wasted if you don't learn at least one new thing........ Denny

By SCHOONER (*)

Date 08-15-2008 02:46

Hey Yorkiepap

I'm a little confused (what else is new Schooner . . . lol )

The blog is written by YORKIEPAP and signed Denny ? Who's who ?

Anyway(s) I also was a welder doing electric and tig but Never did Mig. I seen it on the job sites but never used it. Anyway its a different kind of SKILL that's 4 sure.

I spoke to DelRay now that's an unusual name. Nice guys from what I can see and talk with. DelRay is in charge of the mig welding and paint dept. He show me car that he is mig welding on,
nice work, good peneteration thru & thru and then both sides R grind down. Nice Work.

I have all the conferance in DelRay's work.

I ask DelRay and I'm asking you if you don't mind about this; COOLING DOWN PROCESS. DelRay says, " . . . I get the welder down to the proper heat, heat control is the whole secret to mig welding sheet metal to AVOID WARPAGE. I cool down the tacks and sticthes with air. But you have to know when to cool the welds down. I can' t tell you when, you just have to know. "

Now, that PUZZELED the hell out of me. I didn't question DelRay any further and just left it like that.

What you view/experience/practice of the: COOLING DOWN of the welds ?

I've heard of guys using Watered Rag. But using air, well I'll wait 4 your reply.

Thank you so much 4 putting up with this experience elec./tig/ MIG WELD NEWBIE . . . LOL

GOD BLESS ALL YOU GUYS WHO ARE HELPING ME SO MUCH

Schooner

By aevald

Date 08-15-2008 04:07

Hello Schooner, not that Denny can't answer for himself, but he is a friend of the four-legged variety of Yorkies. Thus the name yorkiepap, or to further explain, "a pappy of yorkies". Sorry Denny, I couldn't resist throwing that out there. Best regards, Allan

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-15-2008 21:14

Hey SCHOONER,
I'm sitting here chuckling at your question......Aevald provided the correct answer.....THANKS ALLAN!!!! I'm a Yorkie lover and share my home with #3, Max. I had Bubba(#1) for 13 years, then Bo(#2) for 15 years, and Max is 1 1/2 yrs young.

Anyway, the process of eliminating or reducing warpage can be done several ways. I, too, use a very low pressure(15lbs) air nozzle to cool my MIG welds during the seaming weld process. Generally, on the long panel seams, you're welding 20-22ga metal and warpage can be an issue. When I end a short run(2-3"), just as the weld cools from dull red to dark, I apply the air. Another fellow I know uses a spray bottle of water set to a light mist to cool his welds and says it also works well also. Everyone has a special technique that, thru trial & error, helps insure proper fit & reduce problems. The primary importance when welding this paper-thin sheetmetal is that the heat & WF parameters have to be established by using some scrap pieces of the panel. I would say that 98% of those who do this sheetmetal work use ER70S-6 & C25 for optimum results. It is a combo that is hard to beat. Also, MIG is the most effective & efficient process.

Anyway, it sounds like you are ready to let them do the job. Your description of the craftsmen and their operation does indicate they are indeed professionals and know their sh*t. I'm sure you will get a superb job done. Keep us updated....... Denny(alias yorkiepap)

By aevald

Date 08-15-2008 21:37

Hello Denny, sorry to take this off-track a bit, but after seeing that great looking little companion of yours I just had to add a comment. My oldest son moved back in with us to help out with his living costs while he is going to nursing school. He has a King Charles Cavalier/12lbs. that is colored just like my Bernese Mountain Dogs(I have a male/135lbs. and a female/85lbs.), the little guy lets the others know that he rules the roost and it is hilarious to watch. The jealousy of them all is quite evident too. I do have a soft spot for the pooches and wouldn't want to live without them. Well not on topic, but I couldn't resist. Best regards to you, Allan

By jrw159

Date 08-15-2008 23:49

I have a six lb. male Yorkie and an 85 lb. Chocolate Lab. My little yorkie will drive my lab right off of a bone. All balls and heart!! Thank God my lab is kind hearted and gentle otherwise he would make a snack out of my guard dog (yorkie).

We had someone break into our cars one night and our yorkie tore out the front door in between my legs and ATTACKED the guy my nieghbor had in a chock hold. Now if there were any vital organs in this guy's ankle region, HE WOULD BE DEAD!!! LOL

jrw159

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-16-2008 01:43

Hey Allan,
I don't think Schooner will mind if we go off-track a bit. I believe we have enlightened him to the point he can evaluate his investment queries to a point of a final decision. If not, we can continue to provide additional "food-for-thought".
I'll tell you, Allan, I couldn't ever be without a pup. I fell in love with Yorkies back in '78 when I went to Bike Week at Daytona, FL. I stay at my best friend, Ralphs' home in Land-O-Lakes, FL, and we go to Bike Week together. He had 4 Yorkies at the time and I fell in love with them, especially the one called "Petey". I wanted to bring him home. Ralph's parents live only 8 miles from me, and when he came to visit them the following spring, he brought me Bubba, Peteys' son. After that, I made a vow I would never have another but a Yorkie. You see, the problem many have, is adults & children fall in love with a puppy and then it grows into a large dog. All of a sudden, the interest wanes and the large dog becomes a chore they don't cherish. With a Yorkie, you always have a puppy. Most of the time anymore, I would rather be with my pup than many people.

Hey John(jrw159),
My first 2 Yorkies were Teacup, about 4 1/2lbs, and Max is a toy at 6lbs. Yorkies are exceptional watchdogs and nothing enters my property that I don't know know about. They may not be able to do a lot as far as physical restraint or great deterrent, but they only need to sound the warning & I deal with everything else with a .40 Baby Eagle or 12ga w/00. Dogs are extremely special to me and I would not hesitate to open the Gates Of Hell if I ever saw anyone intentionally hurt a dog. Please post a pic of your pup.

This photo is Bo.... for 15 yrs was my best friend. Max now looks like him with the color changing with his maturity. Thanks guys for sharing your "best friends" here...... Denny

By jrw159

Date 08-16-2008 19:53

Denny,
Here are pic's of my dogs. BTW my wife does these with adobe, if you are interested send my some of your favorite pic's and she will put something together for you.

John

By jrw159

Date 08-15-2008 23:51

Denny,
I will post some pic's of my male yorkie. His name is Oreo and he is about 6 lbs. at 5 years old.

He is a pain in the a** that I would not trade for the world. He used to travel with me on the road.

jrw159