18 Year Old With Many Questions on Welding Occupations

Date 07-13-2008 05:14

First of all, are You already a recreational diver? If so You may have seen ads for commercial diving/underwater construction/underwater welding schools in the back of dive magazines. Another posibility might be the NAVY.

Some years back I met a guy who had been in underwater construction & welding. He was an auto mechanic and a recreational diver. He went to one of those schools. As he was a mechanic He allready had skills to use while underwater. By the way, there is a really good school in the Pacific North West, but I don't know the name or exact location of it. The guy I mentioned did work under water for a while after graduating from the school, but then He took a job at a NUKE power plant [Ontario Hydro] as a maintainance tec. This was much like underwater work, in that He was wearing a pressure suit weather underwater or not. This job payed extremely well.

A son of some friends who worked underwater, now in His late 40s, is experiencing some bone disorders that may have come from 30 years of deep diving on a regular basis. I am not trying to scare You away from this field, but this is something to look into if You do become an underwater welder.

By mjmanus2006 Date 07-13-2008 05:46

Thanks for the reply, and to answer your question I am not a recreational diver. In fact I have never dived in my entire life.

By gndchuck (**)

Date 07-13-2008 18:42

Welcome to the forum. I would say go to college and get at least an AA degree. While at college you can check out scuba diving to see if you like the water. The reason for this is that there is a good chance that when you start a diving career that you won't be doing it in a year. I've been in the Gulf of Mexico for the last 11 years, I started a couple of weeks before I turned 27. In that time I've seen many more people quit within a year than stayed. Before I start answering you questions, you'll be a construction diver that specializes in underwater welding. There on only a few dive companies in the Gulf of Mexico that offer underwater welding, if you go inland there are vastly more companies that offer the welding. Which is better inland or offshore? That would depend on who you talk to, if you started your career offshore you would say that was better, if you started inland you would say that that was better. From what I've seen and talked to, doesn't matter. At least offshore you can see most of the time. In last, if you decide on diving, keep you ears open, ask questions, the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask, and learn as much as you can.

1 - Depends on how many days offshore you want to spend and the amount of jobs that year, like every thing else the oil field has its ups and downs, but realistically from 50k to 200k. The first couple of years will be on the low end. You'll have a diving rate and a welding rate, as far as the amount of difference, that would depend on your welder status and tender or diver status.
2 - If you don't go offshore you don't get paid, so if you've got the money in the bank you can take off as much time as you want.
3 - Math would be good, but not necessary, just a general education is all you're going to need. College is if you don't like the offshore thing then you have something to fall back on. Like I said I was 27 when I started, I've got a AA, AS, and BS. If I don't want to do the offshore thing I can do something else without someone telling me, if you only had some college.
4 - You would have to first go to dive school, there's a few of them here in the states, east west and south. All of the schools touch on wet welding, but what they got over you might as well not pay too much attention. You will have to go thru the company welding course and learn their procedures, and it's not even close to what the dive school tells you.
5 - In my experience in teaching the welding school at the company that I'm at is the fella with that least amount of welding experience picks up the wet portion faster. But one of my good friends has a degree in welding and he picked it up in a week, go figure.
6 - Age range in dive school is 18 to 40. I start dive school when I was 25, the next oldest was 20 with everyone else 18 to 19. My class started out with 43 people first day, on graduation day there was 11 of us left. Out of the 11, 7 came to the Gulf of Mexico. After the 1st year there was 3 of us left, after 5 years only 2 of us.

Hope this gives you some answers that you're looking for. I'm sure that you'll have some more questions. My email is, c_welch@bellsouth.net . If I don't answer right off it's because the internet out here is on the fritz, at least now offshore we get internet.

Charles Welch

By mjmanus2006 Date 07-13-2008 18:56

Holy crap, that was like the best reply I could have imagined. Thanks so much man, your answers were extremely helpful. I am going to discuss the career with my father and I might have some more questions later, but for now...THANKS!

By Metarinka (****)

Date 07-14-2008 16:34

just as a note underwater welding is a very highly specialized part of welding. There are a million different fields and jobs you can go into through a welding program and experience.
I'd suggest you take a welding class or two at your local community college, the welding you did Oxy acetylene or gas welding is not really representitive of the type of work I would say 99% of welders do. All the electric processes act quite a bit different. I for instance hate stick welding which is what they do on pipe lines and underwater welding (although that is very different). I love TIG welding and I've spent quite a lot of time as a sheet metal welder, but in the end my calling is as a welding engineer. Just to let you know though there's a million different careers, you might find out more of what you like when you get your hands wet... or I guess dry if you will.

By El Cazador (*)

Date 07-13-2008 22:59

I'll mention something I tell the people I supervise. No matter the field there is always room for those who excel. If you're going to do it, make up your mind to be the best and you will have no regrets.

By darren

Date 07-16-2008 10:35

The Navy Seal program turns out some extraordinary welders.

By mjmanus2006 Date 07-17-2008 01:22

Really?, Do they have like a special Navy Seal underwater welding program or something?

By darren

Date 07-17-2008 10:29

i believe that it is part of their training. henry could be of more help on this issue.
i worked with a guy that was with a navy seal underwater welding/construction crew and he said that all seals undergo training in underwater welding.

By gndchuck (**)

Date 07-17-2008 14:58

I would think that it would have to do with emergency ship repair. I know that for the commercial end of it you need coast guard approval and it's considered temporary repair unless it's documented by abs at the dock.

Charles Welch

By mjmanus2006 Date 07-19-2008 05:47

Thanks for all the replies people..they have truly helped. I have been doing a ton of research on the internet about which Commercial Diving Schools are the best and according to some people on the internet, alot of schools are total scams. Another person said "One thing I think these commercial dive schools should start doing is telling students that 99% of graduates will not become a commercial diver. The college I went to 10 years ago only had permanent job placement for 12 students in 8 years!!!". Are the comments made by these two people true? (God, I seriously hope not!). Regardless, I have been trying to figure out which schools are good, but there really isn't that much personal reviews on schools. So far I have researched the "Divers Institute of Technology" in Seattle and the "National Polytechnic College of Science" in Long Beach, CA.

By aevald

Date 07-19-2008 06:24 Edited 07-19-2008 06:27

Hello mjmanus2006, I have been to the Divers Institue of Technology in Seattle for a tour with a group of welding instructors from throughout the state of Washington. I will say that I believe they have a decent program. I have also talked to a few of my former students who have gone there and been through the program. Of the three that I had conversations with only 1 is still using the skills that he came away with and owns his own business doing "nderwater work", you'll notice I said that he does underwater work and not necessarily underwater welding. I put it that way because many of the folks that go through these programs come away from them with many skills besides just underwater welding. They do recovery work, inspection work, assembly work, and many other things besides just the welding. Having said that, I would also like to say that there are certainly jobs where welding is in fact the primary consideration. One of my former students worked in the gulf area for about five years in the underwater welding trade. When I asked him about the experience and what he thought about it he basically told me that you have to "earn" your position in the trade and that it doesn't happen overnight. He also said that it also depends on what breaks come your way and very possibly who you know and how well you have impressed them or if they like you. In his case he was a "tender" for roughly the first year that he was involved in the trade, meaning that he was a topside person who took care of communication, air, and switching of the welding current. Once he had the opportunity to make dives and actually work underwater his dives were somewhat dependent upon the depths of the work. He explained to me that the pay was commensurate with the depth of the work. Deeper means more money. So many times when the dives were deep the more senior divers would take them and leave the shallower lower paying ones for him. This may be a part of why many don't continue with their involvement in the trade. I don't have first hand experience with this information so you will need to take it for what you feel it is worth. There are a few gentlemen on the forum who have had a great amount of involvement in this area, "grdchuck and makeithot", are a couple that I can think of right now. If they don't reply to this thread you may consider private messaging them and possibly they can give you some pointers and information. I am certainly not trying to dissuade you from considering this as a career option, but you do need to try to have all the information as you make a decision such as this. It appears as though you have already made some great steps in this direction. Continue to ask questions and check-out whatever school you decide on very thoroughly before you plunk down your hard-earned dollars. If possible, try to have conversations with current students and also graduates. Their testimonials will likely be the most honest and give you the best idea of the value of any particular program. Also try to tour their facilities and speak with their staff to get an idea of their levels of experience and ability so that you can make comparisons. If they are willing to give you names of perspective employers, try contacting them to see how the schools graduates have faired with their companies. A bit more for you to consider. Best regards, aevald

By mjmanus2006 Date 07-19-2008 08:07

Wow aevald, that was a very informative reply with alot of info I didn't know. Thank you so much. I don't mean to be a negative nancy but it seems like the more and more I do research on this career, the more discouraging info I find out. I know it wasn't your intention but after reading your reply aevald, I feel even more slightly discouraged lol. Here are a couple of the reasons I have been starting to feel discouraged:

-Seems like most people pursuing this career end up dropping out or not making it.
-Seems like most of the jobs are in the Gulf of Mexico and the south, which is where I would definatley not want to live.
-Seems like the demand for this job is very low.
-Seems like (as you mentioned) the more experienced senior divers rack up the financially rewarding jobs.
-Seems like (as you mentioned) you either have to catch a break, get lucky, or know people to really succeed.

There were some more but I am having a brain fart and can't really think of them. I don't know it's just seems like this whole career is just a long-shot pipedream after discussing and researching it. All I am looking for is an adventurous career that pays at least 45k a year with somewhat flexible hours and Underwater Welding seemed like a perfect fit after countless months of searching online for career ideas. It involves welding which I like and it involves water whick I like to be in. Just seemed like a perfect fit for me but maybe not. I don't know anymore.

By gndchuck (**)

Date 07-19-2008 12:19 Edited 07-19-2008 12:21

Aevald is correct on many of the aspects. Sorry about not explaining the tender part like Aevald did, sometimes I forget that others don't really know about the diving. The people that I've seen not stick around was because it wasn't what they really wanted, not that it was too hard. As far as the Gulf of Mexico, there are plenty of other places beside here, there's inland, west coast, and east coast. It's not that there's not a demand for wet welders, just don't expect to get 10 years experience in 1 year, you have to work your way up. As far as the senior diver racking up on the depth pay part, at all the companies that I've got friends at, the only thing that senority has any part of is fit-up or a hard position to weld. When I supervise welding jobs, if the tender (new guy) is on the job and interested in the welding or has been a part of the welding school, I put them in the water with one of the other welders and they get to weld. With that said, the welder in the water just keeps an eye on them and not let them train wreck the weld. I would have to say that 95% of the people that I've let weld for the first time offshore, haven't had a problem, and it usually helps the person see if they want to do the welding or if they just want to stick with the construction aspect of diving. We've got guys out here that all they do is inspection diving. As far as getting lucky, you just have to ask the office to put you on welding jobs if they come up if you're not already offshore. Check out Young's Memorial in Morgan City, Louisiana, they have a commercial diving program that's a little less than most of the rest, and less time. All the schools touch on the welding aspect, but the company that offers wet welding has different procedures and uses different rods. Like I said you're not stuck with just the Gulf of Mexico, I know that a good friend of mine up in Canada is always asking if I'll come up there because of the shortage of wet welders up there. Just remember, starting out in commerical diving is an apprenticeship, so like anything else you'll have to prove yourself.

Charles Welch

By The Ruffian (**)

Date 07-19-2008 17:00

Go to the dive school in Louisiana! It's cheaper, quicker and just as informative as all the others. No matter what all the schools tell you, your'e still going to start as a tender and be one for at least two years before you break out as a diver. Many never become divers. The competition is tough, you either got what it takes or you don't. If you have good common sense and good mechanical abilities you can. If your uncoordinated and clumsy, you won't. Straight up! Be honest with yourself, if you think you can, go for it, the world is yours. If you don't feel like it is your thing, stay home and pursue welding on land and save yourself alot of time, money, frustration and disappointment.

By aevald

Date 07-19-2008 17:17 Edited 07-19-2008 17:53

Hello again mjmanus2006, I was definitely NOT trying to dissuade you from going into this field and as Charles stated concerning depth pay, it is likely that the student of mine that I had spoken to had gotten in with a company where that was the way that "they" did it, and not necessarily the norm. As to the gulf, as Charles also told you, there is water everywhere, the work can be found in rivers, lakes, inland and coastal ports, the ocean, the list goes on. The Divers Institute told us that a large majority of their graduates at the time of our tour were going to work for the ferry system on the Puget Sound and around Canada. This was as a result of 911, every time a ferry hits the dock they do an underwater hull inspection to verify that no one has tampered with anything or set any sort of explosives prior to the ships departure. The one student of mine that is operating a business in diving is working out of Portland, Ore. and does inspection work on the Willamette River and Columbia River on anything from piping systems to cables and also does work for the Corp of Engineers on the local river dams.
ANY job can have it's bad points, less than desirable employers, and other things that don't make it as glorious as we might expect. You will find that in the breaks that some folks get while others seem to have found every bad thing that can possibly happen in a trade. I have students that have managed to find that high-paying perfect job right out of school, while others haven't been able to manage to do any better than a helper's position with all of the crap work everyday without any changes in sight. So don't give up just yet by any means, yet try to be smart about the choices you make and you will put yourself into a very successful position in likely a very short period of time. Best regards, aevald
EDIT: to add just a bit more regarding my statement about breaks. Some folks mistakenly take this term to mean that in all cases people will "get lucky" in what they end up doing, in most cases the reasons that these individuals do as well as they do has a lot to do with their attitude and energy. Confidence, inquisitiveness, patience, and willingness will get you a lot of places in this world. Some folks come by these traits naturally or have been brought to them by good examples as they were growing up, others have to learn to get there through a lot of hard work, yet others, don't ever get there. You've started on a great path by asking questions, a lot of very talented and successful people have given you some great information to base your choices on and likely others will also. Have a great journey, it doesn't end until you leave this world.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 07-19-2008 12:56

If you really want to know about the dangers of underwater welding ask your life and health insurance agent. I am a Graduate of the Ocean Corp. In Houston 1982. I think you will be suprise to know that the average life span for an underwater welder is 37 years old. They used to get you through school and send you to the North Sea with the promise of HUGE MONEY ( which was very real ) If you lived to make it back and collect it. I had my first Heart Attack at 23 yrs old. I was working on a Barge in the Houston Ship Channel leaking MTB's. I ended up In the leak before it was repaired. Not Good. I am 47 now and I still dive for fun. But there is just as much money to be made on dry land in the welding industry and its much safer.

By gndchuck (**)

Date 07-19-2008 18:31

I've asked the insurance agent, got a funny look and said they didn't have a rate. Most of the dive companies have 100k insurance policy that is automatically taken out of your paycheck. I think that mine is like $3, don't really remember, I don't get to look at the stub anymore, the missus has it. Then again she's the best finance adivsor that I've got.

Charles Welch

By mjmanus2006 Date 07-19-2008 18:47

Thanks for the replies once again lol. Cactusthewelder, is it really true that the average age that underwater welders make it to is 37!!?? Why!? Is it because of heart-attacks from the stress or is it from actual problems that go wrong in the water? I mean I know its dangerous profession but jeeze!

I think my new plan is to go for a career in welding and once I become welding certified, I will take a dive and see how I really like the water. If I really like it then I will go to a commercial diving school and go after the career. Regardless If I end up in underwater welding/commercial diving, I will probably end up ding something with welding whether it's in th water or on the surface.

By Cactusthewelder (*****)

Date 07-19-2008 19:04

Check around. Ask different companies the ages of their Divers. There are a few older than 37 But, there are Very few. When I got married in 1981 I was in the union Ironworkers school as well as working underwater. I had to sign an affidavit choosing one job or the other. If I was injured or died doing the one I didnt choose I was not covered on Insurance. My heart attack was chemically induced due to the MTB's I got into while under a barge in Houston about midnight one night. Most Divers quit due to equalization problems, Ear problems and some quit because of injuries caused by tenders not pating attention. Remember this, Alot of the time you spend while you are in the water doing your job, Your life is in someone elses hands. Make sure you trust them.

By gndchuck (**)

Date 07-19-2008 19:27

I'm just about 38, we've got a few wet welders that are in their late forties. Depends on the individuals bodies, some people can dive 50 years with no problems, others a couple of years. You have to remember it's the average. The plan that you have is a good one, and just remember the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask.

Charles Welch