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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / newb question about burning through
- - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 07-13-2008 19:12
I'm currently trying to build a work table in my garage. I'm having a terrible time burning through with 6010 and 7018 1/8. I'm welding on 1 1/2 inch 1/8 square tubing. I've tried it on 84 amps and all the way down to 64 amps and its blowin out like its paper. Should I be using a different size rod? And just to make sure what should the ground and stinger be hooked up to? I'm pretty sure i got it right but with it burnin the way it is and with the issue I had yesterday with the wiring on the plug I want to make sure. Thanks, Anthony
Parent - - By jeff parker (**) Date 07-13-2008 19:51
what is the alloy Im guessing carbon by the rods you are useing, use 3/32 if you have it and how much medal are you trying to carry, run tight small stringers and if you are welding the tubing together with a open butt then make it a realy tight fit 1/8 tubing is realy unforgiving when it gets to hot if you have the capability of TIG welding then that would be best but try 3/32 if you can get some. oh yea are the arc as close to the puddle as possible sounds like you are long arcing on the tubing also remember longer the arc the hotter it gets and your stinger should be on possitive and ground on negitive.
Parent - - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 07-13-2008 20:03
Right when the puddle starts to form it burns through. I cut them at 45s for the legs and main support. I thought I was pretty close but I'll try again. Right now I dont have the means to mig or tig. Need a little more dough before I'll have every thing I need for that. I may try to strike an arc burn for a second then let it cool and repeat. I'm trying to get as much done today as possible. I'll see if I can get some 3/32. Thanks for the help.
Parent - By jeff parker (**) Date 07-15-2008 01:23
hey remember that these amps that everyone is telling you to run is great for there machine evey machine I have ever welded with is different so I would take some trash peices of material you are working with and test out your heat before you continue on with the project good luck
Parent - - By 52lincoln (***) Date 07-13-2008 19:52
maybe use a 3/32 and move a little faster.i would try to use some 6013 or maybe rev polarity.hope this will help you.
Parent - - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 07-13-2008 20:07
6013 wont burn in as deep right? As for the speed I have to move so fast it wont carry a puddle. I should have gotten thicker metal. Lesson learned. I dont know to much about reverse polarity so I'm kind of hesitant on trying it. 3/32 sounds like my best bet. Thanks alot.
Parent - - By elliott (**) Date 07-13-2008 20:49
Hey how it goin . We weld alot of 1x1 square tubing at work that is about 1/8 or 16 gauge, I like to run 3/32 6011 at about  45-65 amps depending on fitup.If running a butt joint on I will run at 45 amps and once you strike the arc wait very brief second and start moving quickly with what I would say is some what of a long whipping motion and on joints that you are running where you are in the middle of  the tubing(say halfway in) and the other tube is butted up against it run about 55 amps and adjust from there but keep the arc on the tube that has horizontial  to the leg you have coming off. Cutting 45 and trying to weld them on tubing that thin is very tricky without burning through.Forgot to mention that we run it  on dc- stringer neg ground postive
       elliott
Parent - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 07-13-2008 21:07
Well, I now realize that at my skill level I'll have to wait till I get some more money and do it the easier way. This thin of metal for stick welding is more than I can handle. I cant control the rod very well moving fast. Thats something I need to work on. Thanks for the advice Elliott
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 07-13-2008 21:21
Try 3/32" rod. Use around 75-90 amps for 7018, 55-65 for 6010. This is only a baseline, you may run a little hotter or colder. 3/32" is perfect for lite gauge material. You can always wire weld it with your 22A if that isn't working. That should do it though. When you're welding with 6010, use a slight whipping motion in & out of the puddle. That will control the heat a little better. Good luck! Steve.
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 07-14-2008 02:50
Try welding the verticals downhill with the 6010. Flat and overhead (if necessary) turn heat back enough to join the two pieces of metal; you can pause and whip with the 6010. pause can be for one second or five seconds if it takes that long to cool down. That thin of metal doesn't have alot of heat sink capability. You may need to skip around to allow the steel to cool.

Weld it good enough to where you feel confident that it will hold whatever you put on it.
Add additional bracing as necessary.

Most common; is to hook your stinger up to the positive for reverse polarity. You will get less penetration if you hook it up opposite of that.

3/32 is a better size and 6011 is another option, less penetrating than the 6010.
Parent - - By Krunch Date 07-14-2008 14:05
Tim- Is 6011 less penetrating than 6010 if you use the same size rod and the same amperage, polarity, etc? I'm a newbie welder and I thought 6010 and 6011 penetrated about equally, and the only main difference was that you could use 6011 with AC. I like how 6011 penetrates...if 6010 penetrates even more, I'm going to have to get me some!
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 07-15-2008 01:16 Edited 07-15-2008 01:27
Hello Krunch. I've never done a test to confirm that 6011 is less penetrating than a 6010 but from experience I think the 6010+ has more dig than the 6011.

I weld thin metals with 6011 rather than 6010 if they are available. I'm not suggesting 6011 is the best rod for thin metals or for Metalfinagler's situation only that the 6011 (if available to him) would be more user friendly.

We weld alot of pipe uphill and the 6010+ is the preferred rod, it has great penetration properties.
Both of these rods penetrate well and weld on rusty, dirty metal with good results.

I also prefer 6011 instead of 6010 when welding galvanized steel.

Here's a link if you would like to research the rods characteristics. http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/lecobrowse.aspx?locale=1033

Under consumables click stick electrodes.
edit>first link didn't work<
Parent - By Krunch Date 07-15-2008 20:48
Thanks, Tim. Interesting link.
Parent - - By Jeffrey Grady (***) Date 07-15-2008 04:22 Edited 07-15-2008 04:37
Anthony,
I was just welding some of the same material today, but I was (MIG) welding it and yes that 1/8" square tube can be very unforgiving if given too much heat. I am by no means a master welder, but  since you probably won't be placing a ton of weight on your table...I would try using a 3/32 6013 rod and run it at about 45 on the heat DCEN. it's a contact rod so you don't neccessarily have to hold a gap, just strick an arc and move. If you still have problems with it blowing through at that point, I would also suggest that you try cutting some strips of thin flat stock to tack to the inside wall of the tube and then fit the joining tube over the tacked -in strips. This will give some heat sink to the square tube and act as backing to allow good penetration and avoid blowing through. I don't remember seeing this approach suggested in the thread. It has worked for me in other situations similar to what you are doing. i hope this helps you out.
respectfully, Jeffrey

PS. Jeff Parker made a good point about long arcing. it will really heat up the steel and cause you to over heat and burn through. That's why i suggest using a contact rod E6013 it runs cooler.
Parent - - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 07-16-2008 09:12
Thanks every one for the great advice. I did find out that the arc control was turned way up causing the amps to shoot up to over 300. I think the plan of action will be to turn down the arc control, tach (sp?) weld every thing, then run it all downhill with 6010. If that dont work I'll be trying all the other great advice. Again thank you all for the great info.

Anthony
Parent - - By sqiggy (**) Date 07-16-2008 14:54
Ant,
I have welded the same stuff you mention. I use 1/8 6011 or 3/32 7018. It can be done without blowin thru. But I have been welding over 20 yrs. That's the difference. I think all you need to do is find the correct heat and your correct travel speed.
On the 6011 or 6010, the trick here is to step the rod. Other words, as soon as you get a puddle, step out of it, then step back in it, forming another puddle, repeat process.
If I use 7018, I use tight small beads and my travel is usually faster than on the 6011. As soon as I get the puddle, I take off and don't let my material get hot enough to blow out.
Parent - - By sqiggy (**) Date 07-16-2008 14:59
Also, you're building a work table?? Yeah, I would've went with a little heavier material. I'm assuming the sq tubing is for the legs?? At least 1/4'' is what I would use.
Parent - - By MetalFinagler (*) Date 07-17-2008 06:08
Well now I have another issue. I have to replace the plug on the welder for the - lead. It was contacting the case cuasing the volts to drop to 0. Hopefully by this weekend I should have most of the table built. I'm F'n stoked. My first welding project. The info you guys have given me has been very helpfull. I cant believe how much I have learned this past week. Again thank you all for the help.

Anthony
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 07-17-2008 15:44
I've welded a bunch of tube like your saying, 1 1/2 with an 1/8th wall. You can do it with the 1/8 7018, I'd stay away from the 6010 just because if your a novice it is a deep penetrating rod. On my welder you can see the difference in how it penetrates and I was running it around 65 amps with a 1/8th rod. I'd go with the suggested 3/32 7018 and keep your rod tip tight in the fillet and run a small stringer. The 6011 is also a decent choice because it is a low penetrating rod. I'm still trying to accomplish my vertical up and overhead tests so I'm not as good as most of the guys on here, but I have built half the world around my house and some jobs using the exact material you are. It's just a ton of practice. Use a few scraps and run some fillet welds, play with the amp range and compare with the other rods(6010/6011)

A fella once told me you can teach a monkey how to mig weld, take the road less travelled, get good with the stick and then learn mig. My Uncle told me last night, " the sad truth is you gotta get out there and burn the rod". Practice, practice. Good luck with your project and congrats, feels good to say, "I built that".
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / newb question about burning through

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