In the past when seeking employment I have tested on the job site and they performed the bend test there on site and completed the records as "Satisfactory" or "Unsatisfactory" (they offered you a job or told you to hit the road). Ether way there was no Lab report involved, Even when I tested in a Nuke it was done in house.
It was my impression that this was the job of the "In House CWI" or the companys selected Rep.
Our Welding Engineer says that every thing must be sent out to an Independent Lab. I am not talking about PQR's just WQR's.
We require all our welders to use different processes, positions and Alloys.
I was of the impression that if we had our own bending fixture we could save time on most qualifications that don't require Tensil, Impact or X-ray.
We use Sect IX for qualification. Is there any one reading this who does "In House Welder Qualification" or has Informed input on the subject?
The manufacturer is reponsible for testing. I am aware of no restrictions for performing all needed tests for welder performance and procedure qualification testing if you have the needed equipment.
I would to know the paragraph in section IX that indicates the need to go outside. Boy have I been messin UP!
It is possible that an In-house procedure or project specification may require this. ASME Sec IX alone does not.
Tell your welding engineer to read QW-300.2. It states that each manufactjurer or contractor is responsible for conducting tests to qualify the performance of welders and welding operators.
The only thing that would over ride this requirement is if you have contract requirements that must be met. If so ask the welding engineer to show it to you in writing.
pipewelder_1999 and R. Johnson
Thank you for your reply, I read it the same as both of you stated.
QW-103 and QW-300 of ASME Sec. IX clearly defines the responsibiities of the manufacturer and contractor to meet code standards. Before welder testing can begin a procedure must be qualified and tested. The destructive test samples can be processed by an independent lab. or in house as long as the equipment used for testing is calibrated. After the WPS and PQR are documented welder testing can begin. We have the choice to do bend testing in house or send that service to a qualified lab. The other option is x-ray testing, and that can be performed in house or at a outside lab.
The key is all welding must be done at the manufacturer or contractors location on certified base materials, calibrated welding power sources and documenting the WPS used by the person testing. That WPS number is required on the WPQ test record.
I don't recall any words in ASME IX requiring "certified" base materials or "calibrated" welding power sources. What paragraph did you find that in?
Marty
Section IX does not specifically state "certified material" or "calibrated welding equipment", but it does state that the manufactruer or contractor will certify welding qualification records. Without "certified material" and "calibrated equipment", welding qualification procedures and performance qualifications become best guesses instead of accurate recordings of actual parameters and vairables. Many quality accrediations that manufacters and fabricators work under require "certified and calibrated" in addition to any ASME or AWS requirements. As an example, the concept of calculating and limiting heat input to control weldment quality would become worthless without accurate meters to record amps and volts. Accuracy is obtained through calibration. Also, just because someone said that that plate is A36 doesn't make it A36.
Just my 2 cents.
Best Regards,
Mike Mason
Perhaps "certified" and "calibrated" have different meanings to different people. ASME IX does not and never has required a manufacturer to procure material for welder qualification tests that comes with a piece of paper traceable to the heat number and signed by the steel producer's quality assurance representative. My experience has been that ASME certificate audit teams, authorized inspection agencies, and the NRC inspectors have always accepted procurement of material for welder qualification tests that is identified by mill markings with the SA or ASTM standard number, or a certificate of compliance from the supplier that states the product meets the SA or ASTM standard. Perhaps your experience is different from that.
As far as "calibrated" welding machines, that is pure myth. A welding machine can not be calibrated. If anyone thinks the amperage, voltage or wire feed settings on the dial are accurate to within a "controllable" tolerance, they don't know much about welding machines. You can check the output with a calibrated meter or tong tester, but the machine itself can not be calibrated. The actual values will always vary between welders, positions, etc. due to fluctuations in input voltage, arc length, cable length, etc. Any agreement between the dial setting and actual output is pure coincidence. You are correct about the need to use accurate meters to check heat input when notch toughness or other limits apply, but that is for the meter, not the power source. And that is controlled by the manufacturers quality program for the fabrication code, not a ASME IX requirement. Perhaps that is what you were thinking about.
Marty
Marty, you have misread what I stated. In my previous post I mentioned "welding equipment" not "welding machines". I realize the power source itself is not calibratable but most amp and volt meters are. This is the equipment that should be calibrated. As far as certified material goes, if a supplier provides a document of conformance for a piece of material then that supplier is "certifing" that the material has been tested and "certified" to a particular specification and a certified test report does exists somewhere.
Best regards,
Mike Mason
Mike,
OK, I see what your meaning was. When I saw the words "calibrated welding power sources", it made no sense. Meters can be calibrated. Power sources can not and there are too many variables to trust the meters on the power sources. Usually the meters on the machines are not of sufficient quality to be calibrated within a decent tolerance band, and we do not rely on them for critical work. Since the majority of our work is SMAW, FCAW and GTAW, and amperage and voltage are nonessential variables under ASME IX (unless notch toughness is required), we do not require calibration of the meters on the welding machine. Amperage/voltage are required to be within the specified range on the WPS and the welder may check them when there is reason to believe the settings are not within the specified ranges. When those parameters are critical (i.e. heat input for notch toughness or austenitic stainless steel sensitization), they should be measured as close to the arc as practical with calibrated meters. I see organizations that put statements in their quality programs about calibrating welding machines and calibrating meters on the welding machines without recognizing that it is an impossible requirement to meet. Quality programs should be practical and should not specify requirements that either can not be met or have no impact on product quality.
The presence of mill markings on the material (i.e., SA or ASTM standard and grade) is also an acceptable practice of identifying the material used for performance qualification. A piece of paper is not always necessary.
Marty
Marty, I concur with you completely. Sounds like you have a first class operation going on there.
RonG, back to your question. It all comes down to what your customer dictates. If he allows you to perform in-house qualifications, great. You save time and money. If he prefers outside testing for qualifications then so be it. We outside labs have to make a living too.
Best regards,
Mike Mason
I wish I were dealing with ASME B31 PVC. My company does structural steel to AWS D1.1. The problem is that we are ICBO certified fabricators.ICBO-ES requires that we have a CWI on staff (myself) but also requires that all WQTRs be performed by an independant third party agency----like i'de falsify a WQTR!
So I guess it all depends on what criteria apply. We are also AISC certified fabricators, and they prefer that I do the WQTRs! Be very carefull out there and read your contract specs!
Thanks for all the great feed-back!
I belive he is convinced now.
We cite ASME sect IX in our ISO manual but we work on rotating equiptment more than anything else so there is (until API finishes there latest contribution) no specific code for what we do and we spend a great deal of time convinceing customers to let us weld on there million dollar + rotor.
So we in turn spend a lot of time doing PQR's, All weld metal and Mock-ups. Most likely the welders who perform the PQR are ones who do the final welding but some jobs run multiple 24 hour shifts and need extra qualified people (Operaters).
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