Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / purge chambers for MIG and TIG
- - By bockpa Date 07-17-2008 19:35
Warning: Engineer / Wannabe Welder posting!!

I am interested in flexible plastic weld chambers.  The sort I am talking about have a heat resistant material inside a sealable bag.  You put your part you are going to weld in the bag, pull a vacuum and then inflate the bag with the inert shield gas of your choice.  Your torch is already ported into the bag and you weld on the piece in a totally inert environment.  You wait for the piece to cool and then take the part out. 

These are used for TIG welding mostly.  Especially when welding stainless steel.  The idea is that you satisify the desire for an inert backing gas in these chambers.

Maybe this could apply to MIG as well? 

Anyway, my question is, can you reduce the flow of shield gas to the torch when welding in one of these chambers?  Can you turn the gas off completely?  Maybe you need some gas flow for cooling off the torch body?  If you can reduce or shutoff the shield gas flow, as everything in the chamber is inert gas, can these chambers greatly reduce the volume of gas used for welding. 

Paul Bock

 
Parent - - By rlitman (***) Date 07-17-2008 20:51
As I understand it, you don't -need- ANY gas flow from the torch, if your chamber is purged and sealed well enough.  If its just slightly leaky, you could use your torch flow to maintain inflation.  If its sealed against pressure, your torch flow would just over-inflate it, and is not helpful.
In fact, you should be able to successfully TIG weld with a tungsten clamped into a stick stinger handle (if you're careful enough not to let an arc touch anything other than the tip)!  No need for a gas lens, or even an alumina cup.  No worries about stickout, etc.

BUT, such a chamber is limited to small parts, and needs to be purged itself, so I wouldn't expect gas savings.
Sure, it would work for MIG, but you need to make sure you have no gas leaks back your liner, and once again, you're limited to welding parts that -fit- inside the box, so with limited amount of welding, the advantages of MIG are less apparent.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-18-2008 04:12
   I would think that an "air cooled" TIG torch or MIG gun might need the gas flow for it's own cooling, I don't know to what degree the cooling from the gas flow is used or needed in a water cooled torch or gun. At the lower amperage settings, perhaps none of the torches/guns need gas flow for cooling.

   I know of some water jacketed marine manifolds that are welded in an enclosure, these have quite a lot of welding done on them while in there, so there may possibly be some gas savings.

    A rigid enclosure will need much more purging, I would think, to get rid of the air. I wonder how the flexable plastic units hold up to continued use, one screwup would probably ruin it.
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 07-18-2008 11:22
Such chambers are commercially available.  However, Most GMA welding is done with an active gas, so it is not practical for that application, unless the active gas component is Helium.  At the lower and middle amperages gas flow is not needed for cooling GTA air cooled torches.  I still used a flow rate of 10 CFH with a # 6 Gas Diffuser lens

i cannot remember the manufacturers name, but the one I had experience with, had a 1 1/2 inch thick Aluminum floor plate, where all the gas and electrical penetrations were fitted.  The top was thick flexible clear plastic with four glove fittings.   Leather gloves were fitted over the rubber glove box gloves to protect them.  It was about 4 ft. in diameter, so it took a lot of Argon to purge.  You had to cover the pieces wit a guard while sucking a vacuum.  This was to protect the bladder against puncture during vacuum suck down and from melting after welding.  In practice several piece to be welded were loaded at one time.  I understand that there are several variations on the bladder construction, including a variant with a 3/8 inch thick solid Lexan top.  I know one man who made his own glove boxes with plywood and plexiglass.  
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 07-18-2008 14:47
warning: Welding engineer / wannabe know it all :)

generally inert chambers are use for titanium, zirconium or other exotic alloys that are extremely prone to contamination and can't handle oxygen in the PPM range. Stainless steel can usually get sufficient shielding from the gun itself or a trailing blanket.

I don't believe their would be any gas savings unless it's a part with an extremely large amount of welds, as the volume of of shielding gas going through the gun is relatively small. Also for most chambers you have to purge out all your shielding gas everytime you load a new part in or out, that in and of itself would consume a large quantity of gas.

air cooled torches generally rely on the shielding gas for some help with cooling, but this is not a concern if you are far below the max amperage and thus not operating near the rated duty cycle.

I've never heard of this with GMAW welding as  that isn't generally considered a "precise" process and creates a considerable amount of spatter that I would assume might have issues with melting the chamber walls. In addition generally GMAW is done with an active gas or inert active gas combo thus defeating the purpose of an interting chamber.

Welding in an inert chamber is generally much slower/ uneconomical in a production setting unless required due to the issues of contamination.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / purge chambers for MIG and TIG

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill