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- - By geralderik (*) Date 07-18-2008 23:24
Can anyone help me
Why the number of pass or weld layers  in the weld is not a essencial variable?  (Table 4.5 D1.1 2006)
I think that the number of pass or weld layers affects the strenght weld and strength base metal (ZAT).

Best Regards

Erik
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 07-19-2008 16:35
Table 3.7 (D1.1 2006) has prequalified requirements regarding maximum size (width/thickness) of fill passes allowed. Also see 3.7.2 and figure 3.1

Jason
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-20-2008 18:48
You can control or describe the size of a weld bead or layer by different means. One way is to address the width of an individual bead by limiting the width to a multiple of electrode diameters, i.e., no more than four times the electrode diameter. You can define the heat input as another way, i.e., voltage times amperage divided by the travel speed. You can control the thickness of individual weld layers or you can use the melt-off rate of an electrode.

I'm sure there are others, but the parameter that is ultimately controlled is the cooling rate. In general, rapid cooling promotes fine grains where as slow cooling promotes large grains.  Large grains have better resistance to creep, fine grains exhibit improved notch toughness. Rapid cooling promotes the formation of martensite, whereas slow cooling promotes the formation of ferrite and pearlite.

In the case of D1.1-2006, Table 4.5, they simply choose to control preheat, cross section of the groove, amperage, voltage, and travel speed to ensure consistent mechanical properties once the WPS has been qualified by testing. Hmmm, it seems the limitations imposed on ranges listed above would do a reasonable job of controlling the mechanical properties that could be affected by the parameters you noted.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By geralderik (*) Date 07-21-2008 19:15
So, Table 3.7 is used for prequalified WPS. In my case the wps is qualified by tests (Secction 4)
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 07-21-2008 22:55
Interesting.  In D1.5 it is an essential variable for procedure-based qualification.

Hg
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 07-23-2008 22:33
I'm interested in knowing more about how number of passes or layers affects weld strength.  Please let me know more about the reasons for this.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-25-2008 02:43 Edited 07-28-2008 05:53
If you limit the discussion to carbon steels, the strength of the weld and heat affected zone is influenced by the cooling rate from the austenizing temperatures to ambient [OK, to the Ms line (temperature)] all other items held constant.

Very simply stated, for a given amount of carbon (or alloying elements that increase carbon equivalency), the faster you cool a piece of steel from high temperature (where the steel is fully austenized and all the carbon is in solution), the harder and stronger it is.

Using low heat input while welding (stringer beads, low amperage, short arc length, small electrode diameter, no preheat, etc.) the faster the molten weld metal and heat affected zone will cool. The results is a hard, strong, brittle weld. Again, how hard, how strong, how brittle is a function of the total carbon (and other alloying elements contributing to the carbon equivalency) and the cooling rate. Interestingly, how fast the piece is heated isn't a factor.

Try this experiment. It is quick, easy, inexpensive, and it will show you the relationship that I'm talking about in the preceding paragraphs. Make a T-joint using 1/2 inch thick A36 (or A572, what ever is handy) and weld two samples. The first T-joint should be welded in the horizontal position using three stringer beads to produce a 3/8 X 3/8 inch fillet weld. Then, weld the second T-joint in the vertical position using a single weave bead making sure you don't bridge the root. In other words, weld two fillet break samples as shown in AWS D1.1. Remember to weld only one side of the T-joint. Secure both samples to something solid and break the fillet weld with a sledge hammer. Count the number of hammer blows it takes to fracture the fillet welds in each case.

Remember, to be a valid comparison both welds have to  be the same size and both have to pass the visual acceptance criteria of D1.1 and both have to have fusion at least to the root of the T-joint. I suggest the pieces be saw cut so you have a good fit, i.e., no root opening.

Tell us your observations at the end of the testing. I know what it will be before you start, but it is best if you find out for yourself. The test will work with either E60XX or E70XX, I suggest using E7018.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 07-26-2008 03:51
I will certainly give this a try.  What I suspect is that the grain size of the vertical weld is larger than the multipass weld with grain refinement from subsequent passes.  This would reduce fracture toughness, but is no indication of tensile, yield or elongation values.  I would be more interested in comparing groove welds welded in a similar manner to see the difference in tensile, yield and elongation.  We have welded a number of AWS PQRs on 1" plate with full width weaves on the vertical and stringers on the flat, horizontal and overhead.  I have not noticed a significant difference in the test results for the full width weave vs. much higher number of passes in other positions.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-28-2008 05:52
I  think the differences would be noticed if you were to compare the tensile test results, elongation, reduction in cross section area, and charpy impacts (over a range of tempertures).

There have been a number of studies over the years that have done the comparisons. If you had access to a library of AWS Welding Journals you might find a number of articles that would support hypothesis without having to actually conduct the research yourself.

There is also enough literature and text books that would confirm many of the statements I've made such as fine grains typically provide better toughness than large grains, large grains typically provide better creep strength than fine grains, wide weaves result in larger grains than stringers, etc.

However, we have to remember to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. You can't change the chemistry and then expect the test results to be the same. You can't decide to perform a PWHT on the welded sample and expect the results to be the same, etc.

The fillet test I mentioned does give you a good feel for the influence of heat input and the changes in strength and ductility and toughness. It might surprise you.

I did the fillet weld experiment with 108 welders at one company many years ago. It changed a lot of the welders' opinions that were stated on the first day of class.

Best regards - Al  
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Technical Standards & Publications / Essential Variable

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