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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / UT, multiple scans
- - By mroach (**) Date 08-05-2008 17:33
Got a situation where we are spinning our wheels with D1.1 2002 procedure legend 4. The joint is a corner, single bevel CJP with a backup bar 2" thickness not ground flush. Basically, a box column with four seams, 100% UT to table 6.3. The code requires the middle half and bottom quarter to be evaluated with a 70 degree angle and the top quarter to be evaluated with a 60 degree angle. Surface "A" is so narrow that I can barely get 1st leg coverage with the 70 degree, however, I have enough distance to get legs 1 & 2 with the 60 degree. At the toe of the weld the 70 catches a class D indication approximately 9/16" deep on the first leg (reminder, cannot scan any further over the weld). The 60 degree on the 2nd leg catches this same indication at a slightly deeper depth and is rated as a class A. Here is the problem, technician "A" reported the 70 degree finding as per section 6.26.8 "FCM" and rejected the same indication with the 60 degree. Technician "B" on the other hand accepted the 70 degree finding as being nonrelevant and ignored the 60 degree rating as being in a region of the weld not to be evaluated with the 60 degree. This led to the site inspector to question the credibility of the inhouse UT inspectors and brought in technician "C" from an outside testing lab. Technician "C" reported nothing with the 70 degree but rejected the area with the 60 degree as a class A indication on the second leg at approximately the same depth. All three technicians have considerable experience with UT, working knowledge of both D1.1 & D1.5 and are SNT-TC-1A level II. Here is the ongoing argument. (A) The code interpertation is to evalute only thoses regions as perscribe in table 6.2 and the procedure legend by the appropriate angle. or (B) As per general note 3 of table 6.2 in conjunction with table 6.3 .  This is clearly a case where 1st leg evaluation of both angles is impossible.  The question that keeps popping up here is that if an indication that impedes the sound path on a particular angle at a depth not corresponding to the examination area of that angle causing a reflection of sufficient amplitude due to the orientation of the defect should it be ignored?   In this particular case, the outcome to satisfy the state was to map the indication and excavate the area to identify the defect. What was found was a 2 1/4" row of porosity with a crack down the middle.  Should'nt the areas of the upper middle half region, which are not accessible to the 70 degree because of plate surface accessibilty and weld profile, be evaluted with the 2nd leg of the 60 degree?  Any comments or past similarities welcomed.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 08-05-2008 18:11
6.20.2 (06) variations in testing procedure, equipment, and acceptance standards not included in part F of section 6 may be used with the approval of the engineer.

also

6.26.6.2 Butt Joints. ....Corner and t joint welds shall be primarily tested from one side of the weld axis only. All welds shall be tested using the applicable scanning pattern or patterns shown in figure 6.24 as necessary to detect both longitudinal and transverse discontinuities. It is intended, as a minimum, all welds be tested by passing sound through the entire volume of the weld and HAZ in two crossing directions, whenever practical. ( Notice the last two words!)
Parent - - By mroach (**) Date 08-05-2008 23:57
Thanks for the response. I've been all over this section also. There was some discussion prior to fabrication about annex K and the fabrication of a test mock-up of the joint, but the powers in charge dispensed with the idea. Mostly because they have no experience with working with DAC curves. Grinding the joint is out of the question so I'll never really know if the 70 degree over the weld would have passed or failed.  Primarily the question is, "under normal circumstances, assuming both angles have enough surface area to achieve 1st & 2nd leg coverage, with the weld not ground, does the code imply that evaluation of an indication will be determined only in that region designated by procedure legend 4 by the angle prescribed and on the 1st leg?" I've been all over this code book and find nothing that emphaticly states as such. Talked with two ASNT UT level III's and got two different answers on this issue. Both of the Level III's do agree on one issue that the orientation of the defect in relation to the angle of reflection may vary in regards to the height of the signal, which in this case, is the guts to my acceptance and rejection criteria. My main concern is probability of detection without over sensitizing the test thus causing unwarrented repairs and hopefully, when these pieces are ready for state QA auditing, I won't be splitting hairs about the depth. Really need to put this to rest because the next phase will increase in thickness forcing me over to procedure legend F and all I have to work with is an IIW standard not a joint representation with side drilled holes.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 08-06-2008 13:10
I would think that if you can't perform a UT inspection according to the requirements of the applicable code then you need to get approval from the engineer for any deviation.
Parent - - By mroach (**) Date 08-06-2008 18:14
Not getting a whole lot of help there! Does'nt matter, got the answer I needed today.  Thanks.!
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 08-06-2008 18:48
Just conveying the code requirements. Sorry if it is of no help to you. Glad you got the answer you needed. Hope it's the correct one.
Parent - - By mroach (**) Date 08-07-2008 17:29
Really appreciate the help. This is apparently a bit of a grey area of interpertation of the code. Trust me, I have talked with many people on this and have had mixed reviews on the matter. I just wish the code could be a bit more specific. Can't say I agree with it, I think there should be more consideration to sound wave propagation through the weld as much as the base metal is addressed. I find it hard to believe that this condition is totally disregarded and not at minimum at least reported. Puts a lot of undue stress on the technician particularly when they are dealing with people trying to disect this code book sentence by sentence and all these guys are trying to do is a good job. But it is what it is! Thanks again.
Parent - - By jbndt (**) Date 11-09-2008 18:56
mroach,

As a newbie to UT also, might I enquire as to what your solution is/was?

Thank you,

jb
Parent - By mroach (**) Date 11-19-2008 16:58
JB                                                                                                                                                                                               In this particular case, the area was excavated and the defect was removed. Reviewing table 6.7 general note #3. Without grinding the weld flush, which in this case was not going to happen, a complete 70 degree scan was not possible. The upper portion of the middle half was not accessible on the first leg with the 70 and there was not enough surface area to scan from to get second leg coverage. Due to the accessiblity of the scanning surface being limited to only one face, the upper quarter was to be evaluated with the 60 degree on the second leg as per procedure legend 4. It was decided that any area not covered by the 70 degree would be evaluated with the 60 and the 60 degree acceptance criteria would be applied.  Needed a couple advil after this debate....................MR
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / UT, multiple scans

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