Miller bug welders

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-08-2008 03:10

I guess when Lincoln has one next year You will have to hate Lincoln gear too.

By heath hanson Date 08-08-2008 03:30

No i could never bring myself to hate lincoln. I guess my real point is that there are enough automated machines taking away work from us now you just need a couple unskilled laborers to watch a machine do the work. I suppose we all better become inspectors so we have jobs because you know the guys watching the bug don,t cost as much as a truck money talks.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-08-2008 04:43

You are looking at it all wrong, Bubba, You want to OWN a few of those things and hire the guys to run them. Then You make more money.

About 1 1/2 years ago I was talking to a local guy who does a lot of plant piping, He was telling Me about the big money per hour the guys with orbital welders were getting, sounded too good to be true.

By okiewelder2 (**)

Date 08-08-2008 03:23

well maybe when all the automation in this country puts us all out of work maybe these big companies will let us buy there products with our welfare checks

By heath hanson Date 08-08-2008 03:34

It does make me fill good that Miller did it first though that shows how much they care for rig welders. Again just my 2cents

By swsweld (****)

Date 08-09-2008 03:19

I'm not familiar with the bug welder that you are referring to but I use to do alot of machine/mechanized welding with Dimetrics, Arc Machine, Magnatech etc and you had to set it up and monitor(adjust) the arc. You could train a non welder to do that for overlays or capping but not for root passes or groove welds where you had to have the ability to read the puddle.

I use to get some attitude from welders that we were replacing them with technology. That was not the case. It takes a welder to operate the machines. It makes the weld in high radiation areas and near impossible to get to areas and can give consistent heat imput, etc. There are a lot of benefits to using machines to make welds. They will NEVER replace all or even most manual welding. It is too expensive in most applications and takes too long to set up in most cases.

Maybe i should have researched the Miller bug welder before replying. Is it FCAW, GMAW or GTAW? Is it on the pipelines?

By heath hanson Date 08-09-2008 05:00

They say they can get around ten more welds per day the problem that I see is that they want to sell this to the pipe line companies not the welders.

By darren

Date 08-09-2008 09:21

we are not the only ones in this business to make money, everyone is. if you are really concerned about how much work they are going to be doing you should invest in one of the new technologies and make a bunch of money. i am not worried about it at all there is so much steel that needs to be welded in the world right now to catch up on lacking or missing infrastructure that we humans will be welding by hand for a very long time.
darren

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-09-2008 13:27

Hey heath,
Please don't misunderstand my response or feel it is demeaning in any way. First, what are your welding skills, age, processes you are proficient in, and field experiences??? Give us an idea of what you base your statements on? There are many superb, very experienced weldors here who provide information and experience to share to enlighten those seeking a career in the welding arena. You share your bias of Miller and feel every company who advances technology does so to the detriment of the worker. Yes, automation has eliminated many manual operations and those who complain constantly, cry because they don't or won't advance their own learning abilities. I started to weld in the '50's.... how far has welding, automation, manufacturing, industry, construction, and science progressed since then? I still weld.... every day. I make a good living, have a very comfortable lifestyle, and give thanks to be able to do so. I didn't get discouraged because I felt technology was going to eliminate my ability to make a good living....I had to apply my own foresight to what the future was going to do to my earning capability. I simply learned the new, maintained and kept in memory the old, and made the meld of both, work and benefit me. Don't shun progress.... use it....learn the new....use the old.....you will be a better person.

Denny

By aevald

Date 08-09-2008 17:36

Hello Denny, very nicely put from the eyes, ears, and experience of a true veteran. Your response is spot on and everyone that has a chance to read this should apply it to themselves however it fits. Best regards, Allan

By heath hanson Date 08-09-2008 21:18

Denny I can see the point that there is more work than there are skilled welders this is not my point. I again just my opinion feel that this process targets the pipe line companies not the welders. When you started just like me you got the worst jobs the company had to offer and worked your way up to the point where you had the best tools and got the better of the work offered based on reputation and experience. The average rig hand can't go out and buy one of these machines so the companies will and the guys running them won't have the skills experience or just plane don't deserve that gravy work. I feel that it takes work from men with the experience to do it the right way and will give it to a bunch of pups that should be in a shop learning it from start to finish or begging to be a welders helper to learn the trade. I also do agree that I have a chip on my shoulder about the power of blue thats from 14 years on a lincoln machine and I don't have a problem with the technoligy just that we can never afford it. I have been welding pipe long enough and curently run 6 field trucks and yes they all have lincoln 300's on them and a 6-8 man fab shop not big time but I have alot of young guys working for me and I feel after they get done paying there dues alot of the work will be automated and they never will have there chance at it. Then again maybe i just speak for the old boys that taught me and couldn't even open my laptop to voice there opinion. Rig welders are like wheelbarrows easy to upset and hard to push around.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 08-10-2008 02:28

Bug units will never be suitable for most of the pipe work you amazing folks do out there in hard conditions.

There will be a place for them and hey, thats just how progress goes... But gravy work is not what big money is all about... The big money is for the hard, dangerous and difficult work (stuff that Bug's just will never be able to do)

SMAW is so slow even compared to FCAW that if it could have been replaced as a process, it would have. Those big money jobs are not under such a big threat.

30 years ago the same complaints were being made about GMAW Vs SMAW

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-10-2008 15:30

Hey heath,
Again, my comments are not to to be demeaning.... just factual. Your words indicate bias, one-sided opinion, a bit of tunnel-vision, and the conclusion that the youngsters entering the welding arena will be stuck in a low-level position forever. I sincerely feel you should sit down with a cold beer or two and re-evaluate your view of todays' manufacturing world and the present situation of labor and the ability and hunger for each worker to make his/her own path to success. If one chooses to remain in a low-level, low pay, crappy work environment, non-rewarding position, then THEY CHOOSE to do so. Please don't tell me it's any specific location, or many companies have shutdown, or immigrant problems, or an overabundance of skilled hands, because those factors are everywhere.

Don't put your opinion in my shoes. You know nothing regarding my start in the welding arena. I never took any "worst" jobs in my life....I learned to be smart and work smart. Don't explain to me that: "the average rig hand can't go out and buy one of those machines, so the company will, and the guys running them won't have the skills, experience, or just plain don't deserve the gravy work." How in the h*ll can you surmise that? Your choice to be a rig/pipe outfit, with a fab shop, is your choice to do so. Your youngsters who work for you CHOOSE to work for you....if they are not satisfied they will get better jobs after "paying their dues", too bad. Each persons' hunger and desire to learn, get better each day, continually look to advance their careers, not hesitant to relocate if necessary, and never get discouraged, will survive in todays' work world.

Do yourself a favor and knock that "chip" off your shoulder and use common sense to look at your workers and provide them with an incentive and thought that it is THEY who command their destiny and fortunes. Enlighten them to the fact that jobs change constantly and so does the work environment. If any 'ol timer can't open a laptop, it is because THEY chose not to open it. When you begin the process of losing interest in the new technologies, you only stagnate..... mind & body. Again.... YOUR CHOICE.

Heath, I've "been there...done that". My career was choices to move on, learn something new, move on, learn again.... move on. Each move was more beneficial than the last..... it is because I CHOSE to get & be better. Never had a "second guess" either....... Denny

By spgtti

Date 08-11-2008 00:57

CRC has been making and selling those machines since the 70's. There's plenty of different automatic machines being used to weld pipe and tube in different industries every day, by certified welders. Sure a few people with no welding background slip in and call themselves welders but this is the exception not the rule. It takes a pretty big support structure to use and maintain most of these machines and they require more care than a stinger or a torch. Instead of fear of a new and great technology try learning to run them, nothings as easy as it's advertising and you'll be adding another tool to your trade.

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 08-12-2008 00:37

spgtti thats what I worry about is the ones that slip through I just like to see guys well rounded instead of trained on one single machine. We all have to constantly learn and better ourselves and agree with that I just see this going the wrong way do to the current lack of skilled welders it won,t be hard to train a couple of guys to run these types of machines. I don,t hate new gear I just worry that every time the job gets easier the help gets worse.

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 08-12-2008 00:27

Denny I only think the point of the original post would have been to discus the impact these machines may have on pipe work and the real world training of up and coming welders or the lack of. Some guys don,t ever want to change and are very old school that is not you which is good on the other hand the site is for people to voice opinions I like old school and I hope all the new guys that embrace technology still know how to do the work without an orbital or any other new machines that come along you have ben there and done that so you do it right we know and I respect that but you to have a chip about this topic two. I,m sure that we both have plenty of knowledge about the trade and in a coffee shop or over a cold beer or two would have plenty to talk about lets do ourselves a favor and not point fingers and tell us why you like the machines the intention was not to start an argument between us but I still don,t like miller. Found my old password.

By yorkiepap (***)

Date 08-12-2008 02:04

Hey Johnyutah,
Are you the original poster "heath"? If you are, my responses are simply from experience, the progression of the technology, the improvements with safety & reliability, and the entire gamut of the industrial world that has advanced tremendously in the period of my career & life. I am "old school" regarding my upbringing with parents that instilled honor, respect, and a very strong work ethic. For other old timers in my age bracket(65 at yrs.end) who never wanted to advance their learning skills & their level of income/lifestyle, I don't feel sorry for them. It is up to each of us to make a determination of what will benefit ourselves, family, and comfort level, and to have the rewards we work for. If I have a "chip" on my shoulder, it is because throughout my career, I have observed, work along side, listened to, and discussed the problems many workers have regarding their beliefs that they are "owed" a better life because they "paid their dues". Bull**it. You want to understand my observation & interpretation?...... simply look at the youth of today. Work ethic......non-existent; attitude......duuuuhhhhh; honor......cannot comprehend the word; respect.......at what price?; self-confidence.......what's that? They can't read, write, spell, or use the English language in any sort of semblance or understanding. Not all, mind you..... so many though. So....what is the future of each following generation? Yup....that is my "chip".....such waste.

Johny, I don't point fingers or start an argument, or cast demeaning, callous remarks towards anyone. Only try to encourage, enlighten, and pass on a positive mindset to those who may need a bit of "old school" nudging to give them an attitude that: "YES!!! I CAN DO THAT!!!!! If you want to look at all my posts to "see" the real Denny, be my guest. One absolute is that every persons' nature is in their words.....all you gotta do is read them. Glad to "debate" with you anytime....... Denny

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 08-12-2008 03:21

And that is my main concern Denny I think were getting close to the same page the lazy youth that is our future. And these guys won,t know a thing about the trade as a whole but will train on a machine to do the work I would love to see these machines affordable for all to buy that would speed up pipeline and the tuff welds could still be done buy hand.But i would hate to see the machines bought buy the pipeline contractors and put pipe welders out of work because there is no way that it won,t be cheaper to do that and the machines will only get better and faster. I do agree that a qualified welder will do the work at first and then train new guys but I for one hope that they require the operators to qualify with and without the machine to do the work. I would think that is fair or even rent the machines to the rig welders on the line I would like to know if anyone does know the price of one. Again just think automation should never replace skilled labor.