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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / mig welding question
- - By pipe hand (*) Date 08-11-2008 03:05
the process is downhill mig root saw balance I have run this process  before with 70s-6 wire .035 about 21.6v and 180-190 on the wire the roots look slick and xray. I use a small nozzle and walk the root in.I have trained several people at my old shop to do this and have had no problems. I moved to another shop and have been asked to train some people on this process here is the problem they are using 70s-2 .035 wire 19.5v 300ipm the root xrays ok but looks rough and dose not dig like it should. here is what I noticed if I put a small nozzle on  it runs worse so you hand to free hand it to get it to run and use a bigger nozzle, my old settings are way off in the new shop and the tip seems way to close to the end to the nozzle. I have not run this process in           much in the last 2years any help would be appreciated.
Thanks S.C.
Parent - By and4rik (**) Date 08-11-2008 04:53
try training them to twirl the gun before the pull the trigger, this may help. it will also give the added bonus of the feel of an old west
ern movie.    

HAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Parent - By jarsanb (***) Date 08-12-2008 04:20
Well, one very important variable you left out was the shielding gas. Your settings at your previous shop are pretty sound for 100% CO2 and the settings at your second shop could work with Argon mixes, but would be very difficult to operate with CO2. Also, the 21.5V and 180-190 wfs would be pretty sloppy with Argon, tons of spatter, wire fighting back to tip and even some hollow bead porosity in rashes with the excessive voltage for that gas. My guess is that you are running different shielding gases - for those reasons. Is there a Welding Procedure? If so, I would get with management and talk to whoever qualified it to discuss techniques used. The 19.5V and 300 wfs are not adequate parameters for use with CO2. I wouldn't recommend those for Argon mixes either, but I don't know the wall thickness nor position or rolling speed if it's rolled, or the root opening. It could be adequate. I have to believe the wall thickness is fairly thick given the SAW process for fills and cap. Even so, in my experience a 17.5 to 18V and 200 to 240 wfs with 85% Argon works well on heavy wall roots. As far as the nozzle and tip goes, it's all in relation to electrode extension (the amount of wire protruding from the tip to the welding arc). You want this "stick-out" to measure around 3/8". This will promote stability in the short-circuit arc and amperage at a given wire feed speed. If you are using a small tapered nozzle then the tip could be recessed. If you were using a large orifice nozzle then you would want the tip to be flush or even sometimes extending out beyond the nozzle, because you can't reach as far into the bevel since the large nozzle will be resting on the groove faces. A recessed tip and large nozzle combo using short circuit transfer are begging for incomplete fusion and porosity. Good luck
Parent - By Kix (****) Date 08-12-2008 12:45
Like jarsand said I believe it may lie with your electrode extension or maybe the gas.  When you go changing nozzles around and such you contact tip to work distance may be changing which will throw your parameters off.  If the bevel angle of the pipes you are working with now are different from the ones before, that will throw off your contact tip to work distance.  I run my vertical down roots in with a knife edge root face. heavy 1/8" gap and 16 to 17 volts with a little more than enough wire to give it the push.  This give a very nice consistant wedding band on the inside of the pipe.  Good luck
Parent - - By petty4345 (**) Date 08-12-2008 18:14
The difference that you mentioned was 70S-2 vs 70S-6.
I've compared 70S-2 to S-3 and the S-2 did not wash anywhere near as well as S-3.
Haven't done the same with S-6, but I'd start there, go back to what worked.
Parent - By pipe hand (*) Date 08-21-2008 19:07
thats what they are going to do order what is needed the day time foreman is not a welder so I had to prove him wrong. Along with working nights and my wife in the hospital I have to deal with a idiot so we will tig the roots until the right stuff comes in. thanks for your help
S.C. 
Parent - - By Goose-em (**) Date 08-13-2008 17:43
The last # (6,3,2 etc.) is representative of the amount of silicon in the wire. Higher amounts of silicon improve the weldability for dirtier material, ie welding over rust mill scale etc.  Higher # = more silicon.  Can make a difference but I would guess it is not the main culprit.

Gas can play an important factor as can voltage and WFS.

Higher voltage less penetration and wider bead

Lower voltage more penetration and narrower bead

Higher WFS more penetration

Lower WFS less penetration

This is why it is important to dial the two in to give the best of both worlds. 

Dial these two in for the type of gas being used and you should see good results.  Just a matter of a few trials to set the parameters.
Parent - By pipe hand (*) Date 08-21-2008 18:58
thanks to all that replied
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / mig welding question

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