I read and hear alot about CWI's that can't read prints and can't weld. How can these people get their
certification without training? Don't they have to have 5 years documented exper. or eductational equiv.?
I am a HS instructor and have taught for 5 years I also work 2nd's as a welder to get more exper., what does
it take to be a CWI, I am looking into it myself.
thanks,
mike stanfield
Alb. NM
Mike,
I had to rely on 23 years industrial experience, 6 years eperience as a welding instructor as well as a 40 hour refresher course to achieve my CWI. It's amazing how others can accomplish this goal with minimum experiences and qualifications!
I have also run across welders with certifications from schools with no ability to read a tape, understand welding symbols, work with fractions,set a machine up for GMAW/FCAW.
Sometimes the training that is given at some institutions is geared towards passing the test instead of being skilled.
I can show my wife how to pass a 6g 2" GTAW/SMAW pipe test in 40 hours. That will get her a job but won't help her keep it.
I have never had formal training(as an adult) given by another person/group related to welding knowledge required for the CWI exam. I had a welding instructor in high school that inspired me to learn as much as I could and that is how I learned. I was questioned by people after finishing early where I took the course. I told them it was learned in the bathroom.
The short term goals of some educational organizations don't always help individuals meet their long term goals.
Study to learn, not to pass.
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I have to agree with Pipewelder,
A CWI will get your foot in the door.
Kinda like haveing a Certificate saying you are a Heavy Weight Boxer, So OKay climb in the ring and show us what you got.
I belive that a portion of the CWI test is designed to prove you can pick up the material and learn and the over all scope is designed to see if you can think like an inspector (Ahem). By that I mean "one who will not always accept what may seem to be the obvious and investigates further"
I recieved my CWI certification in March of this year. And believe me that just achieving this cert is only a small step when climbing the "Respected Welding Inpector" ladder (Especially at the tender age of 25). But it has been a huge jump after the fact. By that I mean that before when I was first interested in studying for the exam I thought just passing the exam would be the difficult part, but, that was actually the easiest step.
Now that I am employed as a CWI and I spend many hours interpuerting code books, writing WPS's, PQR's, WQR's, testing welders and telling dudes twice my age they need to grind out their welds, I realize I will never stop learning this trade, and my respect for the gentlemen who have most of the answers in thier head grows daily.
As for these people passing the exam when not knowing how to read a tape or prints...........they must be getting the answers from an outside source, I think the test is adequately designed to weed out those that can't handle these simple tasks.
Another problem lies with AWS. I know a guy that worked as a welder for a company that wasen't even governed by a code (one of the AWS so-called requirements) and he had no problem having his application accepted. Of course he falsified some information but AWS needs to be checking these things because it takes away from us that meet the requirements.
Call AWS @ 1-800-443 9353 and request AWS QC-1-88 " Standard for AWS Certification of Welding Inspectors" and AWS QC-G " Guide to AWS Wwelding Inspector Qualification and Certification.
As a ten year plus CWI I find it unlikely that untrained people could achieve a CWI however there is a seminar from the AWS ( 1 week) that
almost teaches the test and Hobart has a two week seminar that does the same thing with a guarantee if you fail you can retake the seminar for free until you pass! Does this make you a CWI ?--yes on paper but those who pass still need years of experience to make the CWI credential work as it was meant.
Good luck and study hard before and after the test.
Heres' my take. I worked in the industry, then earned my B.S and M.S. in Vocational Education and Agricultural Engineering. Worked in the industry again then started teaching high school and community college courses. Love teaching, hate the bs that goes with it, but thats' another story.
Became a SENSE program last year and went to an AWS course this summer and took the CWE. Had a teacher named Ron Thiess and he didnt teach to the test, he taught the industry of inspection. It was incredible and I learned ALOT. Use it in classes daily.
Use D1.1 all the time and should have gotten my CWI, and will this summer.
Know 2 CWIs' and learn alot from them about battle wounds. The main thing I hear is, dont take an inspection job if you might get in over your head. Start small, get help if you need it, be a sponge and suck up knowledge, and gradually learn your way into the inspection field.
By -
Date 03-10-2002 22:59
I am reading all of the replies to your ad. I must point out the only responses you are getting is from welders. I have ran into many CWI's that were welders and many that were not welders. I will tell you the better inspector in most cases is not the welder but the other one. Welders, that I have encountered, who get there CWI have an additude about them that they know everything and you can not tell them about welding, especially older welders/CWI's. The CWI who was not a welder, will most of the time, keep his mouth shut and learn from others. Remember, you may know how to do something, but someone else may have a better way of doing it and/or you will learn from them. Most Welder/CWI's have an ego about them which in turn prevents them from learning from anyone, this is a shame! The type of inspector you become or meet, is all dependent on the person. In our industry we rely on integrity, unfortunatley a lot of CWI's get lazy and buddy buddy with the welders they are inspecting. This is fine but keep your personal and proffesional life seperate. I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps., I have been a welder, machinist, metal worker, performed heat treating of many different alloys, NDT in UT, MT, PT, ET, VT and RT. They trained me to be an inspector, and seperating personal and professional relations is second nature to me. Unfortunatley not many civilians can do this. For welding and steel work I am certified AWS/CWI, AWS/CWE, ICBO Strucural Steel and Welding, ASNT Level III UT, MT, Level II PT, ET, RT, VT. I have trained and taught qiute a few inspectors and the non-welder students have been the better of the two. They inspect and become very maticulous due to it being something new, the welders, well let's not beat a dead horse. Before you go judging anyone because they did not weld, try listening to them and quite possibly learn something. Remember none of us knows everything. I learn something from people who do not weld every day, as well as from those that do wel.
As was said earlier, there are inspectors that were welders and those who weren't. In my experience with QC/QA individuals, the best inspectors were the ones who welded. The biggest pains were the ones' who didn't because they didn't have a clue of what to look for in discontinuities in certain proceses. Almost all of the non-welder inspectors could tell me how to set up for a process...SOME couldn't even tell what process I was using! I think that a good inspector that was a good welder is a valuable asset on a job site, especially if some of the people have worked with the individual before. The inspector/welder gets a lot more respect than the inspector/non-welder. My theory is that if you don't like the way it looks, you better be able to do better than me. I am a trade welder and studying for the CWI and the craft trade that I am in, how slick your welds are is everything and everybody knows it. I also know that "slick" isn't in the code books, but a weld that's acceptable per code that looks like sh-- is going to be hard to accept. The one that's polished up nice, and looks good isn't going to catch the bad attention that some inspectors will put on it. Matter of fact that's the welds they like to take pictures of.
A weld that "looks bad" is hard to accept. If you cannot interpret the acceptance criteria.
Some of the biggest "pains" I had were from welders, that because of their great skill, were selected as inspectors. They had no idea of
1) the order of precedence for governing contract documents,
2) the difference between a non-essential, supplementary essential, or essential variable
3) How to complete a non-conformance report
4) Who the engineering authority was on the job
5) What the specfications said
6) The fact that higher numbers on a SMAW electrode does not make it "Better".
7) Zinc around SS welds causes very small cracks to occur.
8)What the customer wanted
9) Why Welds fail
10) How much it costs to make needless repairs.
11) How to certify a welder in accordance with AWS and ASME
12) Big puddles don't mean your "burnin it in".
13) Excess heat input on HSLA steel cannot be detected after welding with RT PT MT etc..
14) and many other things that I didn't learn under the hood for the last 20 years.
Anyway . Both concepts have some valid points but I though I'd mention the other extreme. I do feel that welders who become inspectors usually make better inspectors however, how slick you weld means absolutely nothing if its not in accordance with the specifications.
PS: If you talked to the shops where I am inspecting, they wouldn't agree about the picture taking. I won't be getting any birthday cards from them.
Have a nice day all
Gerald Austin
Iuka Mississippi