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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Arkansas Bell hole test
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- - By CK Welding (**) Date 09-04-2008 23:41
As I have posted in the "Help please" topic,  I have never taken the 2" and 3" arkansas bellhole test.  I don't even know for sure what it is.  As I understand it is a 3" pipe with a 2" pipe branching out of it at a 45.  if this is the case I am not sure how to go about cutting the 2"  It is not in my pipefitters blue book. The smalest pipe size it has is 3".  I would appricate it if someone can explain to me what this test involves.  BigK gave a desciption of the step by step process of the 12" branch test wich was clear as a bell,   Maby because I have done it and can relate to it first hand, anyways I would like for the same thing with the Bellhoe test if it's not too much to ask.  Thank you
Parent - - By TozziWelding (**) Date 09-05-2008 00:09
Basically you are doing a full peno pipe test, AK bell hole is slang for a key hole root.
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 09-05-2008 00:21
No, no, no, no, no.
Arkansas Bellhole is slang for a open butt vee pipe test made on a 45 degree angle.
A reference to the mountainous terrain of NW Arkansas where few if any welds are made with the pipe in a horizontal run.

JTMcC.
Parent - By juve11 (*) Date 09-05-2008 00:37
always wondered why it was called that
Parent - - By TozziWelding (**) Date 09-05-2008 00:39
Sorry about the confusion JT, I live and work up north. We call a keyhole, AK bell, etc... all the same thing up here. Basically the way we see it is an open root 6010 pipe weld, up or down.
Parent - - By TozziWelding (**) Date 09-05-2008 00:41
It all depends what part of the country you are in as to what you call something. For example, a soda in Boston is a "tonic".
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 09-05-2008 00:48
Pipeliner terminology is not "region specific", it's worldwide for the most part. Travel to the UK, western Europe, The middle east or russia and the language is the same.

Every corner of the U.S. uses the same terms, to mean the same things, because the same group of induviduals have laid mainlines in every state in this Great Country.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By CK Welding (**) Date 09-05-2008 02:04
I am still just as lost as ever.  This is a 3 and 2" Arkansas Bellhole test its about a week away and I still don't know what It is Please please help me.  I don't know why I have never ran into this test before.  Judging by the feedback I have so far it's really uncommon.
Parent - By sqiggy (**) Date 09-05-2008 04:26
It's not a uncommon test at all.
You will be taking 2 test. One on a 2" and One on a 3". Both will be set at 45 degree angles. It is also called a 6G. A 5G is just a bellhole. You will not be "branching" the 2 to the 3. Do you know what type of filler rods you will be using? Usually, on that small of pipe, you will be tigging the root in. Good luck on your test.
Parent - By rigwelder8201 (*) Date 09-05-2008 05:01
Don't sweat it. It just a 6g test on 2" and 3" pipe. Do you know if it stainless or carbon? That something I'm looking for. Do you know if they need anymore rig there?
Parent - - By sandra Date 09-05-2008 05:06
[deleted]
Parent - - By rockin d (**) Date 09-05-2008 11:07
thats what i have taken when told Ark. bell hole
Parent - - By CK Welding (**) Date 09-05-2008 17:48
Thanks so much to all of you. Thats easy as pie!  I was thinking way to far into it.  This will be a cakewalk.  We are running 5P+ bead and HYPI all the way out.  Thanks so much again.  Why don't they just call it a 6G?  This way I would have known what they are talking about.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 09-05-2008 18:30
Not to try to confuse the topic even more,
but I always heard that the test is run as a 45 deg 6g, as you guys described, and the name "bell hole" refered to the type of environment the weld was typically performed in the field.
In other words, a bell hole is a hole dug in the ground around and under a buried pipe or gas main that requires the installation or repair of a "Wye" for tapping in an additional branch.
The test is to see if you can adequately weld these size pipes in position.
The trick is to perfrom the weld just as well as the test, after you get the job, and are standing in a hole in the ground, up to your knees in ice slushy mud.
An "Arkansas Bell Hole" is a hole in the ground, on the side of a hill, so the pipe is sloped.
I understand this is a very tricky operation when hot tapping into a live gas main, because if you blow through, you have to keep your head and fill in the hole by buttering the edges, without allowing the gas to catch fire....
I guess that would be called a smoking bell hole?

Anyway, that's how I've heard it...

Tim
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 09-06-2008 20:44


That's pretty much it, you don't always get the benefit of the bell.  And as you can see, in the old days, there were no walk-outs either.

Sometimes, a bell hole can turn into a h*ll hole quickly.  No one was hurt in this one.

Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 09-07-2008 03:16
Sweet Pics.

"No weldors were injured in the making of this production" :-) S.W.
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 09-07-2008 12:46
Also this is some kind of oil line because natural gas burns up, not down-I know I'll be corrected if I'm incorrect!@#$#%^ Ted
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 09-07-2008 13:02
Bad news either way!!! S.W.
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 09-07-2008 16:46
Right you are.  Those were crude flowlines in the Teapot Dome Field in Wyoming, home of the Naval Petroleum Reserve #3.  The crude is so light and pure that the Union Pacific would use unrefined product for lubricant.  Here is a picture of the dome. And one of Teapot Rock (It's a fairly recent picture, I just like to shoot things like this in B&W) Years ago, there was a spout, but it was knocked off by a lightening strike.

~thirdeye~



Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 09-07-2008 17:19
If it were gas it would actually be a workable fireball. All the flame would be above you. I would hit it with a 30lb dry chem and then make the necessary repair, usually a SS repair band to stop the leak followed by a weld over sleeve. (Can't stop the leak with a band? then it's stoppers and a by-pass.) A very routine repair and believe it or not the higher the pressure the safer I feel. When working on a distribution system in a big city it's not uncommon to have a line that is 1/4 lb psi. Should a burn through occur(old bare steel that is rotten) while welding on a service tee or tapping sleeve the low pressure has a tendency to start burning right in you face were 10lb and above will blow it's self out. Ted

PS what do you do in this case-oil?
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 09-07-2008 19:50
Often, draining the line is all that is needed, but you need to swab it as the heat of welding will draw oil to the joint.  They might shoot come dry chem on the inside of the joint.  Other options are balls or pigs to stop any flow, then they are just pushed along ahead of the product and retreived later.  In the case of small lines like these (and bear in mind they are crude lines not product lines) they take loaves of bread, mix it with water and make a plug.  When the flow resumes, the crude dissolves the plug.

~thirdeye~
Parent - By TRC (***) Date 09-07-2008 19:59
WOW it's really different on this end of the line( EAST SIDE). Quite often there is no shutting the gas line down it has to be worked live or stoppes and a by-pass- Ted
Parent - - By IRWelder (*) Date 09-09-2008 22:20
In reply to Thirdeyes post
Is this the same oilfield that the Tea Pot Dome Scandal was centered around way back then?? I don't feel like googling it right now and thought that you may know.
Jim
Parent - - By thirdeye (***) Date 09-09-2008 23:05
Jackpot.  It's one in the same.  It is about 40 miles north of my house.  I just finished the newest book "The Teapot dome Scandal" (Or how big oil bought the Harding white house and tried to steal the  country), by laton McCartney.  It's a good read.  Ever heard the expression "fall guy"?  It came out of the scandal as Albert Fall was the Secretary of the Interior during this time.

~thirdeye~
Parent - By IRWelder (*) Date 09-10-2008 13:33
Thanks Thirdeye,
Being a history buff I like reading books like that so I may try and locate it. Being in Canada I may have to get it from Amazon.com.
Pretty weird rock formations around there.
Parent - By thirdeye (***) Date 09-06-2008 08:24
JTMcC,

I agree for the most part.....I recall that some Australian and Canadian pipeliners call skids "blocks", and say "boom cat" instead of sideboom or tractor.

In the 70's one of Red James's skid bosses (whose nickname was "skid", and who was very good at spinning tales) would tell the green hands that when he started laying pipe, the set-ups were logs, and that he was the one that came up with the idea to square them up.  So they named them after him.   Heheeee.

~thirdeye~
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 09-06-2008 17:29
JTMcC is Absolutely correct - PERIOD!!!
Tim Gary added some more history, and another application of it but, nontheless, JTMcC is technically, and practically correct!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 09-07-2008 03:17
Where did you go Henry?? I thought after such an entertaining post, you would have at least bated me on a little more when I answered it.

'Comon, Hank. get with the program! :-) S.W.
Parent - By up-ten (***) Date 09-08-2008 04:28
Speaking of terminology, I've heard the term "Alabama weave" on jobsites but its never been explained the same more than once. Anyone care to explain this term and what it really describes. I have an idea but up North here things get kinda watered down.
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 09-06-2008 09:16
a tonic in texas is a fancy alcoholic drink lol
Parent - By PipeIt (**) Date 09-09-2008 20:06
A soda in Indiana is Pop : )
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 09-05-2008 18:00
so a hard Arkansas is 6G ???
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 09-05-2008 18:37
I'm up north ( a little more west )also, and Arkansas bell hole is a standard pipeliner term for a 6g test.
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 09-05-2008 21:20
thank you-- I weld to test a machine not for a living and it is quite interest to learn the terms
Parent - - By scrappywelds (***) Date 09-06-2008 15:56
2" SCH. 80 IN 6g POSITION OFF THE BUMPER OF YOUR TRUCK IS WHAT i ALWAYS HEARD. tHAT WAY IT IS A LITTLE LOW AND YOU WILL GET DIRTY OR MUDDY TO SEE IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT. Also heard it can be a no grind test or a 7018 open butt tests in the same set-up off the bumper.
Parent - - By Johnyutah (**) Date 09-06-2008 16:49
I learned from an old Questar hand and every guy we tested was off the truck 6g and he called it an Arkansas bell hole. However I took one for some pressure vessel work they called it an Arkansas bell and it was 2" xx had to use the rig tig root no grind 7018 all the way out but I took it in shop and at whatever height I wanted.
Parent - - By K.Sexton26 (**) Date 09-06-2008 18:40 Edited 09-06-2008 18:51
6g-arkansas bell hole is the same wheather on pipeline or process pipe, don't matter if the test is off the bumper of your rig on 2" xx downhill 5p/8p plus or in a test booth at power house on 6" sch 120 tig all way out. as long as the cupon is in fixed position on 45 degree angle its a ark bell hole/6g. it's standard term in pipe period not just pipeline although thats were it originated from.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 09-06-2008 19:09
Please feel free to correct me, but to my knowledge, process and filler do not matter either. GTAW, GMAW, FCAW, SMAW with SS, CS or anything. 45% fixed position, 6G = Arkansas bell hole. :-) Now there are for sure more commonly used combinations than others, but all still a Arkansas bell holl.

????????

jrw159
Parent - - By K.Sexton26 (**) Date 09-06-2008 19:29
thats what i was saying, the process dont matter
Parent - - By rick harnish (***) Date 09-06-2008 23:28
Its the way Ive always understood it
Parent - - By CK Welding (**) Date 09-07-2008 02:10
Just one more quick question.  I have taken this test before, I just never heard it called anything other than a six G.   The way I always set it up is in my vise on the back of my truck.  I set a 45 level on it and clamp the vise down on it when the pipe hits a true 45.  This can make the weld more compicated than it realy is becaue of the tight positions you get in on one side of the pipe because the truck gets in the way.  I was wondering if everyone does it like this or is there a better way to set this up so its easier to get around.  Thank you.
Parent - - By Robert Turney (*) Date 09-07-2008 02:47
By no means am I a "real welder", but I have to take a 5G test every year to keep my card.  I work in Arkansas, and the company I work for only requires us to test on 5G for our appendix C.  I hear stories from the old hands about the 6G with low hys. and the qualifier would walk around with a level, and if you didnt have it on a 45, you better get to cuttin some more test nipples and startin over.  I know some welders from Bald Knob, and from what I understand thats where the Arkansas Bell Hole weld term came from.  Thats just what I heard.  By the way, all the welds I make are in a bellhole and for some reason they always seem to be muddy.  Just thought Id chime in.
Parent - - By K.Sexton26 (**) Date 09-07-2008 03:16
i got a question? when the topic of a pipelining comes up which is often, theres alot of references and comments about baldknob,Arkansas. is that were the best of the best are from, are they a large portion or group of pipeliners from that area. im sure somebody could fill us in on that?
Parent - - By JTMcC (***) Date 09-07-2008 04:33
Bald Knob is a small town with a large number of pipeliners.

JTMcC.
Parent - - By K.Sexton26 (**) Date 09-07-2008 14:36
thanks JTMcC, always wondered
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 09-07-2008 18:13
AKA "Knobber?"
Parent - - By K.Sexton26 (**) Date 09-07-2008 19:16
they've actually got a knickname for them, are most of them in the union. sound's like a pipeline mafia, whats the story behind this
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 09-07-2008 19:44 Edited 09-07-2008 22:56
I've never worked Union ( inspected union welders) but I've also never heard anything like orginized crime out on the right of way. I can say this they are a family of people trying to make a living in this messed up world!!!! The term "broter-in-law when welding 2 welders to a joint came from the litteral term because they are so close that it's not uncommon to have family working together. I know several families from Falk Arkanasas but yes Bald Knob is world known for the proud tradition of " Nothin' finer then a Pipelinea"
Parent - - By Robert Turney (*) Date 09-07-2008 23:26
When you say Falk, do you mean Fouke, Arkansas.(sounds like fowk)  Thats in southwest AR, and there are alot of pipeliners from that area.  Just wondering, cause when Smokey Crabtree wasnt chasing the Fouke monster he was pipeline welding.
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 09-07-2008 23:50
I didn't know Smokey but as a matter fact I do know Lynn Crabtree, J. Knight and W. Holden small world. And if I recollect correct Knight and Holden are brother-in-laws.
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