hello everyone
I have a question about welder certs. I am going to a welding trade school in CA. My friend at school has received his S.M.A.W 7018 3&4G and F.C.A.W 211 wire 3&4G. He went to test for a job and they told him that his certs were fake and that you can't weld FCAW 211 wire unlimited. At my school we have a AWS CWI come in to our school to check our bend test. They charge us $100 per test($100SMAW- $100FCAW211WIRE-$100FCAW232WIRE etc) the CWI then issues our cert cards right then and there. No applications to the AWS and no waiting time. The cert card has the CWI stamp, CWI number and cert number. Is this correct?
I have read on the AWS web site that you have to fill out the application and send $30 and wait about a month to get your cert card.
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
thanks alot
This is how you get AWS certification card through accreditted test facility. This paragraph was taken from the AWS website. It also has a link to find the closest test facility.
When do I get my card?
You will learn if you passed the test immediately, however, AWS will receive your application, test results and $30 registration fee up to two weeks after your skill demonstration. (This varies; check with your selected AWS Accredited Test Facility). You should receive your qualification card and supply of certification maintenance forms from the AWS Certification Department in four to six weeks.
I think the issue is that the wire (211) is limited in the thickness that the manufacture recomends using it and some limit the number of passes.
It doesn't matter where a person tests or who witnessed the test, it is up to the employer to accept the "certs" presented or to disregard them.
A knowledgeable employer would be more interested in the fact that he had demonstrated his ability to deposit sound weld metal as evidenced by the test records presented.
I've never met him and I don't know him, but I would be interested in how he presented himrself for the interview. If they were not impressed with him as an individual, they could have been using his paperwork as a convenient means of sending him on his way.
I remember asking my nephew to give me a hand a few years ago. I needed an extra pair of hands to hand me tools while I was performing the inspection. He showed up with a pink beard and pink hair. It didn't look very professional and my client immediately asked me where I found the "freak". Needless to say, it was the last time he worked for me.
Appearance counts!
Best regards - Al
"I've never met him and I don't know him, but I would be interested in how he presented himrself for the interview. If they were not impressed with him as an individual, they could have been using his paperwork as a convenient means of sending him on your way."
that's exactly what i was thinking when he told me that.
The inspector shows up to witness the bends and not the full test or am i reading this wrong.
BABRt's
the inspector does not witness the test. in some cases it might be a month after the test before the inspector sees the test.
To me if he did not witness the welding, then how can he certify who made the weld?
Sounds like your people's are paying chingles $$ for spit.
JMHO
BABRT's
Hi all,
Have to agree with dbigkahunna, there is something very dodgy going on here.
Most Welder Qualification certs have something along the lines of " We certify that the statements in this record are correct and that the test coupons were prepared, welded and tested in accordance with the requirements of ............(enter applicable code)......
If the person is certifying these welders without witnessing how can he guarantee;
1 It was prepared in accordance with the code.
2 It was welded in accordance with the applicable code.
3 It was welded in accordance with a qualified WPS.
4 It was actually welded in the position stated.
5 It was actually welded by the person stated.
If they were bend tests that were cut and ground how was visual inspection performed ?
It could have been the worlds ugliest weld but once it is ground smooth they all look the same.
If a qualified CWI is doing this it is only slightly less fraudulent than the person with the fake stamp (IMHO)
Regards,
Shane
In the past I've sent welds via UPS truck to far away labs to be shot, and papers issued with an AWS CWI stamp upon them. The CWI never laid eyes on the welder or me. Each time they required an affidavit filled out and signed by me that I witnessed the particular welder named make the weld in the proper position.
There were odd reasons I had to do it that way, but we did.
JTMcC.
Hello JT,
There is nothing wrong with sending coupons away to be tested, it happens all the time. Some NDT companies will however put a rider on that the welding was not witnessed by that company.
If you recieve a signed RT report (signed by a qualified radiographer) then you (or the applicable person in your company) should be able to fill out and sign the Welder Qualification Certificate yourself, I can't see why there is a requirement for a CWI to sign anything (especially if he hasn't witnessed it)
What concerns me is a Certified Welding Inspector signing something as true and correct when he has not personally seen it.
Surely there must be something in the AWS CWI Code of Ethics that prohibits signing your name to something you have not witnessed ?
Regards,
Shane
Well it was an odd situation and the prime contractor wouldn't accept my signature or my qualification (in my company) of welders and insisted that a CWI had to perform these functions.
You can only argue so long before it becomes easier to comply with their request and get on with the work. There was a (for me) significant amount of income involved so at that point if they had said all of the welders papers had to be signed by Mickey Mouse I'd of been buying tickets to Disneyland ; )
I brought it up because I thought the affidavit thing was interesting, and the CWI did in fact sign, stamp and issue the papers himself.
JTMcC.
I have sent coupons away for testing and had the papers sent back by the testing company they had done the test and the results. The test papers were CWI stamped by the specimen testing witness but the specifically stated the weldiong was NOT witnessed by the CWI. I had to add to the papers I had witnessed and visually inspected the coupons and the date the test was conducted. This was approved by the company QC manager and this procedure was in the QC manual.
But the papers were not offical until they had everyone's signature on them.
BABRT's
i would like to start off by thanking all of you for your replys. well i guess my next question should be. should i go to a accredited test facility to take my test? and how do i go about doing that?
There is no guarantee that the paperwork issued through an ATF (AWS) is going to be accepted any more than paperwork issued by any CWI. The important thing is that the paperwork be completed correctly. All too often the information is not correct or it is incomplete. That is a red flag to most other CWI's and it may not be honored as a result.
Best regards - Al
well as far as the certs go, down here in louisiana no matter what you have the company will make you test again for that company. even if you have already tested for that company before, they test you again if it has been more than 3 or so months. and sometimes inspectors will be there to witness the bend test, but not the actual testing process. usual the place that does the testing has a QC or someone that mey be certified as a shop foreman or something of that nature. but thats how just about every company does it down here. i can not speak for any other places. the company CWI may stamp it but its only valid through that company.
That's an awful lot of $$$ for a piece of paper that may or may not mean anything. For example, if you come to work in my company you'll have to pass a test dependent upon what the PM wants you doing for him; TIG or MIG. I don't care what kind of paper you have from schools, former employers, etc.; it's not getting you out of a practical test which I have to witness. Now as far as the certs being "fake" I think you'll have to take that with a grain of salt. Fake in that context might mean simply they don't mean squat on my shop floor.
Bottom line is you can be asked to recertify!
Forum
