holding cerifications hostage

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 09-18-2008 17:00

No contract ..... i would say that they cant.

By hogan

Date 09-18-2008 17:49

If you know the testing lab that performed the testing I would call them and say you need another copy of your cert and can come in and pick it up

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-18-2008 20:07

Put yourself in the place of management.

They invested in you

You are showing all the signs of preparing to bolt.

The certs are theirs rather than yours.

You may be able to sneak about and get yourself a copy. But don't for a moment think that this appears like any thing other than you using your employer to get some certs and then fleeing for greener pastures. If you think it's ethical to do that, ok. But why complain about the ethics of your employeers for holding onto the performance test qualification records that they payed for?

They own the certs... but the better part of it is still that you own the skills eh?

If you go across the street to make Tanks or Hummers for the other guy.. Those certs you currently hold will not be valid anyhow (

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 09-18-2008 20:18

Hogan,
Not sure how things operate in the US but in all the labs I have worked in in the Southern Hemisphere we were only ever allowed to release documents to the person/s that paid for them.
It does seem strange that the company won't give the certs out if all their costs are met though,
Regards,
Shane

By aevald

Date 09-18-2008 21:09

Hello Shane, and others. I believe Lawrence somewhat touched on the logic of this question. I believe there are also other reasons and justifications for how this works. If company A pays for a particular certification for one of their welders and this individual performs work based on this cert then it is usable for the company whenever this individual is performing welding requiring it. The company paid for it, it owns it, the individual is certified to the particular code but only while employed by this company. The only exceptions that I could see that might be different in this case would be a company that would voluntarily allow the cert to go with the individual, but then would any other companies really accept this for face value without performing testing of this individual on their own? Likely not, and if they were audited concerning the certs that their workers held, would the auditing agency accept this condition?
Unless this cert is similar to the WABO certification process in the state of Washington in the U.S., the WABO is different and is issued to the welder personally and isn't "owned" by the company. So if a company pays for the welder to test to WABO standards the welder can "technically" leave at any time and the company has no say regarding keeping their cert, the company has the name of the individual and their certification number but doesn't have control over their card. Also, if the company has paid for the cert it can only possibly lay some claim to it if this has been negotiated prior to the certification process taking place. As far as company claims to certifications in this case I haven't heard of anyone challenging or being challenged for ownership. In instances concerning the WABO certifications, various companies that this individual might work for will likely require an inhouse test and if the candidate is successful they will use the operators name and certification number from their WABO card for their records. Hope this information adds a bit more to the mix. Best regards, Allan

By shyamal.ghosh Date 09-19-2008 03:28

Alan, you and Lawrence just ruined my plans, I was gonna start sending prospective employees down the road to my competitors shop and get certified so they can come work for me! :) :) :)

By 803056

Date 09-19-2008 03:54

He who pays gets to play. When the employer pays the bill, they own the certs.

For the most part, welder qualifications are not transferable to a new employer. Granted, there are exceptions.

If the welder wants to own the certifications, he should go to a third party testing lab and take the test and pay for the test. It ain't cheap! Bear in mind that most welding standards require the welder to follow a qualified WPS (D1.1 and D1.6 allows for the use of a prequalified WPS).

Best regards - Al

By swnorris (****)

Date 09-19-2008 13:20 Edited 09-19-2008 13:22

I don't allow welders to have a copy of their certs because of liability issues. Should another fabricator or an erector accept the cert, and the EOR accepts it, and a failure occurs later on, my company's name is on the cert. It doesn't matter that someone else has accepted the responsibility, my company's name is still on that cert. No thanks.

By Pipeslayer (**)

Date 09-29-2008 15:08

The certs should be for your present employer if I read correct and under their procedures. This would mean to me that they can't be used for another compay. Most companies have to certify you under their procedures and would not accept certs from another employer. I know this happens but any paperwork with a new employer would probably be forged without conducting an actual weld test. I don't like testing welders that I know are qualified and have been welding consistley for 2 decades just to keep everything on the up and up, but I do. As for a contract I think your employer is whistleing dixie and can not make you pay for squat. Thats simply their cost of doing business.