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Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Safety / Pregnancy and Hi-Frequency Exposure
- - By aevald (*****) Date 09-26-2008 15:40
Hello everyone, recently one of our students approached us at our school about the effects that might be posed by exposure to Hi-Frequency while being pregnant. She had been to her doctor and asked him since she had a concern, his answer was: "ask your instructors they probably know more about it that than I do", well folks, we certainly don't know either. So I'm asking for your help out there. Do any of you have any information concerning this topic or know of any resources where I could determine any ill effects or any precautions. Any and all help would be appreciated. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 09-26-2008 16:53
Allan,
  You may have already found this info. I just did a quick search so I hope this is along the lines of what you are looking for.

http://www.fgf.de/english/research_projects/reports/in-vivo-studies/factsheet-Buschmann_e.pdf

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:8685672

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4RNWN_enUS285US286&q=Pregnancy+and+High%2dFrequency+Exposure

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
John
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-26-2008 17:49
Hello John, thank you for including that information for me. I hadn't gotten to doing a google search, thanks for attaching those. I am also hoping that some of the folks out there have had some personal experience regarding this topic that they would be willing to share. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 09-26-2008 18:22
Allan,
  I am anxiously awaiting some first hand information on this subject as well. I personnaly have never had this brought up before.

John :-)
Parent - - By Jenn (***) Date 09-26-2008 17:50
Allan,

I believe I remember reading about this before to some fair extent... and there was no significant noteable effects as far as I could find.

I just was curious about different things in welding, and the "what if I didn't know I was pregnant" theory - would I have to give up my job. Of course a killer respirator system would be an immediate order!!!!!!!!

I AM NOT planning on having kids though. Let's hope no accidents happen either, lol.

FWIW

Jenn
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-26-2008 19:08
Hi Jenn, thanks for including your take, I believe that the information that I have been able to come up with so far has all been as you said, no proof of any detrimental issues. As to other welding related safety issues, these will likely be a work in progress and there will always be new discoveries and methods for dealing with these issues. I would include asbestos as one of those issues, unfortunately the problems and issues relating to this have already taken a toll on many who were exposed. Not only welders, but millwrights, shipwrights, auto mechanics and others who have worked with products that used asbestos as a part of their trade. We have seen a major change in how this product is used or not used and also how it has been dealt with in instances where it is present or still in use.
     Hexavalent Chromium, an item that is found in working with SS predominantly and possibly other materials, is another item that is being scrutinized much more closely due to health issues that have been determined to come from it's processing, welding, and use. Osha is getting into the act on this much more strongly, yet it still hasn't gotten into the enforcement end of it as much as they initially indicated they were going to. I believe there will be much more to come on this topic and anyone who is sitting on the fence in dealing with it will likely be having regrets if they don't start initiating changes in the very near future. I believe we will likely see a great number of new class action type suits or personal lawsuits directed at shops and others as a result of ignoring this as an issue. As I see it, the lawyers are the only ones who will really benefit..... AS USUAL.
     Solvents and welding can also be a very bad mix, I don't remember the specific type of solvent, but I have read instances of particular solvents being photochemically reactive with welding arcs and producing phosgene gas. Phosgene gas is very harmful and even fatal in some instances, so being able to recognize when this could be a problem will prevent individuals from being put into an unsafe condition. I believe phosgene gas is also produced when R-12 refridgerant is burned in an open flame, don't know about some of the newer refridgerants.
     As a worker who might end up welding on piping systems that have contained various types of chemicals or gases. You should be aprised of the dangers that could arise from cutting into, welding on, or otherwise dealing with modifying, tying into, or working with these systems. In other words, don't just blindly accept that you should proceed with working on something like this. Your employer should be able to provide any information that would be pertinent to doing this type of work. This might include providing MSDS documentation to describe the reactivity and safety issues for any particular type of product that you would be dealing with. In some cases the plant where you might be working will provide a safety orientation where they would cover the specifics that would apply to maintain safety in their particular work environment.
     There are likely many other types of things that could expand further on your questions Jenn, I hope I have understood your question and included some of the information you were seeking. Thanks for your reply to my question. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Jenn (***) Date 09-26-2008 19:59
Allan,

I do research on everything I come into contact with, or possibly could. Remember, right now my part time job is at a SURGEON's office! A rather helpful thing.

The only small thing I can find about the High Frequency is a few slight mention of mild effects on menstruation cycles.... but that's not really what you're asking about. Still female related though, and it was one little blurb - only in one or two places, not much on that really either.

In the past, as a printing press operator - I was around a whole lot of chemicals that were very nasty. I was fresh out of high school and had no idea what the chemicals were doing to me. They irritated existing health conditions, and I wish I had've paid more attention to what was going on so I could have protected myself better on a daily basis. Lesson learned! Thankfully before it was too late to do massive damages.

I appreciate all of your information, You're absolutely right! I cannot see where a hood with a full ventilation system for any welder coming up is not a good investment as soon as they decide it's what they're going to do for a living - and they can drop the coin for it (why not??). Most importantly if they're welding on the Stainless daily, and you know your ventilation is not adequate. I've read up on the Hexavalent Chromium some.

I've heard of the phosgene gas being produced by solvents. I had no idea refrigerants could turn into it too - interesting.

Safety is a VERY important thing with me, and I'm not going to do anything I am not well versed in. I'm not just trusting something someone says is "ok" to do that sounds fishy. I have logic, and smarts. I didn't survive this long by accident (trust me, with my  younger life that was a hard thing to do!). I will learn everything I can about what I'm doing and how to do it RIGHT ...... BEFORE I do it! If I get walked for refusing to do something I feel is unsafe, at least I still go home that day to my husband. I'm ok with that.  :)

Thanks for the info... in total agreeance with all that you've said. And as always, I like to get information from you - you are a wealth of it.

Sincerely,

Jenn
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 09-26-2008 20:25
Jenn,
  I noticed you mentioned something that effects many welders, and that is the cash. Often times one can inquire through human resources about a payroll deduction for certain items that will be utilized in the line of work. We offer this option and have had several employees upgrade to a better hood. The employee must sign an agreement that basically states how much will be deducted from each check for how long, (our company allows for up to 8 weeks) and that if the employee quits the remaining balance will be deducted from the last check.

This is how I bought my first air assist hood many years ago. I bought one of the original RACAL hoods. That thing looks kind of like a darth vader helmet. LOL I still have it in my storage shed.

An added perk to these is in the summer it is like wearing an air conditioner on your head, but suprisingly it is not too cold in the winter. :-)

John
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 09-26-2008 20:53
Hello again Jenn, thanks once again for the reply and the additional information that you included. One of the real benefits to this forum and the many topics that are discussed here, to me, is the fact that many who don't give certain topics much thought can actually see where they could benefit from them. I follow a number of different areas on this forum, some of them directly answer questions that I have, other times things come up that may not seem so important, yet they are still important in the bigger scheme of things. I have asked a question about pregnancy and high-frequency effects and have received some great commentary and information, additionally this has spun off to include things which I do believe are equally important concerning our trade. I hope that this thread continues to include the original question that I posed as well as any of the other questions that have come about. By the way, you are oh so right when you said that no job, where safety isn't a concern, is worth risking not coming home at the end of the day. Best regards, Allan 
Parent - By pipe hand (*) Date 10-03-2008 08:18
if you get walked for keeping yourself safe they were not worth working for anyway that's what gets good hands hurt some jack leg foreman cutting corners to up production and make himself look good.
We had a green helper (I just taught to run mig) sick as a dog because the boss had him welding galvanized stiff legs( not cleaned no respirator) on because the pipe has to be on the truck tomorrow
My 3 kids were all around Hi-frequency no problems
S.C.  
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 09-26-2008 19:47 Edited 09-27-2008 01:03
Hello again Jenn, there were a couple of other fairly significant areas concerning exposure and safety issues.
     In the past many of the fabricated items that surround us were painted using lead-based paints. For those who have ever welded on these items you have likely experienced some of the discomforts associated with breathing the fumes if you didn't have the proper ventilation or respiration systems, if your exposure was excessive you probably labored through the sickness, body aches, headaches, and other resulting issues. So if at all possible avoid welding on painted or coated surfaces unless they have either been properly prepped(sand-blasted, ground, or otherwise cleaned of any residues which could burn and produce noxious fumes) or make sure that proper ventilation and respiration are in place.
     Along the same lines, there are plating processes that you may be asked to weld over or cut with a thermal type process(oxy-fuel torch, plasma cutter, air carbon arc, oxygen lance, laser) that could produce fumes that could be very harmful to you. Galvanizing, cad-plating, and a few other of the platings that I can't remember right now can also be very harmful, short-term effects as well as long-term. You should pay close attention to proper ventilation and respirator requirements when working with these sorts of items. A few more thoughts for consideration. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 10-02-2008 11:04
Not sure if this issue is discussed, actually the first time I've ever heard it mentioned but here is a link to the world's best and most complete safety and health document relative to welding (and it's FREE!)

http://files.aws.org/technical/AWS_Z49.pdf
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-02-2008 20:17
Hello Jon, thank you for replying. I briefly looked through the information in your attachment, but couldn't find anything specific addressing Hi-frequency, or more specifically it's effects, cautions, or other information. I am, however going to continue looking through it for other safety related issues and suggestions for addressing and implementing good health and safety practices. Thanks again for taking your time. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By PlasmaHead2 (***) Date 10-03-2008 22:44
Allan,
http://www.lessemf.com/
The whole site is about EMF shielding and safety, however I'm not sure how much of it applies to welding. It seems that most of the devices and shielding supplies are made for household currents and I have no idea about how any of it would work in a welding environment. There's a bunch of books and videos on various EMF safety topics, and some that cover industrial topics but I don't know how much they cover... just looking at the old catalogue I have from them.

On the phosgene topic, any solvent or substance that has chlorine in it can produce phosgene gas when exposed to high enough temperatures. And when it comes to HVAC systems, EVERY refrigerant has either chlorine or fluorine or both in the chemical makeup except for R-290 (which is propane) and R-717 (which is ammonia). So not only could you end up with phosgene you could get hydrochloric and or hydrofluoric acid forming in whatever you're welding on.

Hope this helps a little.
-Clif
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 10-03-2008 23:40
Hello Clif, thank you very much for that very informative addition to these topics. Appreciate the heads-up. Best regards, Allan
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 10-05-2008 04:33
    Odly enough, Halon, a fire extinguishing agent is in this group too. "Normal" fire temperatures are not supposed to break it into phosgene gas, but electrical arcing and the combustion cycle in a diesel engine will. Due to ozone layer issues halogen fire extinguishers are not as common anymore.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Safety / Pregnancy and Hi-Frequency Exposure

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