I would have to see the hard numbers, but I still don't buy it. Machinery is considered a one time capital investment with a low recurring fixed cost (maintenance, fuel and all that) Also with the way government does depreciation right now you can save 10-50% off the price in terms of a tax breaks depending upon the classification of a machine.
Capital costs are preferred over recurring costs, because well.. it's one time as opposed to recurring, and a lot of that depends on the ROI.
Here's how it works, If you sink a million dollars into a machine plus another 100,000 a year in labor, that can do a job exactly the same job as 200,000 worth of sub contracted labor. It seems like you loose out, however after 10 years, you've more or less broke even, not to mention government wise machinery is usually completely written off in around 3-11 years which is a huge tax break. Now your running an extra 100,000 a year. This is not a perfect example as 10 years is relatively long for an ROI but you get the point. If you stay with labor it's going to be 200,000 a year like clockwork and it would be near impossible to shed that expense (unless you advocate paying people less)
From my understanding of automated pipe welding systems, they are a time saver, are they a labor saver too? I.E producing more joints per man hour? I would be curious to see how they do for defect rates as compared to manual welding.
The costings must be getting very competitive as outfits are running automated piping systems right now. It's probably not because they enjoy doing things more expensive either, I'm certain they have some kinks to work out and I doubt they will ever be able to do every joint or some hard to reach joints.
and the comment about the "ears in fingers" I know welders aren't calling the shots, but some people, and not to generalize but usually the " 'ol dawgs" are reluctant to adapt or even embrace new technology. From a welder/ operator/ foreman aspect an automated piping system is different than 100% manual welding, and takes different skill sets. The people who put their fingers in their ears and say that the day will never come when automated piping systems are common place, and who refuse to do anything but pickup a stinger. Will find themselves either priced out of the market or the market will evolve and they will be redundant. There will always be a place for skilled pipeliners and stick welders, but in my crstal ball I don't see SMAW pipe lining as the technology that's gonna carry us through the current century.
Adapt or Die, is how I see it, and writing off the technology isn't really adapting.
Like I said once already, you don't have to buy it.
But you didn't answer my question, Where are you seeing reluctance from welders and welder foremen? I get the distinct impression you've never working in the field so I'm curious, WHERE are you seeing this?
I've been in business long enough to recognize when someone is reciting what they've read in a book or on the internet. And, I don't take advise on my tax situation via a welding chat forum. Heaven knows I have enough real world experience in business taxes to last me several lifetimes, it's really one of my least favorite parts of the gig (and it's about to get a whooooole lot worse). So I skipped over that part.
Don't impune motives or attitudes to me, I haven't commented on auto as either good, bad or indifferent. You take a lot of side tracks and assume a lot about my post.
I DID comment on the cost per weld between auto and manual in the mainline environment. And I stand by that based on real world numbers. For the third time now, feel free to disagree, but you appear to be disagreeing with no personal experience to base it on and that's not a very credible stance.
That's fine too. Lot's of people argue different particulars of the pipeline construction world without ever having made a living in that world, it's the internet afterall. I've had people argue how "it should be done" that have never set foot on a row, they get to do that if they want.
I have a pretty good idea what opinions to take seriously and which ones to just let slide on by.
That's my take, take it or leave it.
JTMcC.
We are using the Sarimax system right now on the 36" Alberta Clipper line in ND. There are 4 shacks 2 welders 2 helpers each, we avd. about 1-1/2 mi/day. We started end of Aug and have 12miles of mainline left out of almost 70. This is my first time on the auto and it is pretty kickass.
