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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Finally
- - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-01-2008 14:45
Wow, I finally received my D1.1 2008!!!!!!

10-1-2008????

jrw159 :-)
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 10-01-2008 15:05
Good to hear they are finally sending it out.
Parent - - By trapdoor (**) Date 10-02-2008 05:33
Lets hope the 2010 D1.1 doesn't come out in january of that year.
So how is the quality of the binding?
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-02-2008 13:39
The binding looks like crap. I will get a pic and post later. I am not sure if mine is defective or what, but the cover is not glued to the binding inside. This may be intentional, I don't know.

jrw159
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 10-02-2008 19:37
It looks intentional.  One thin layer of cardboard flexes along with the rubbery adhesive binding, and the other layer stays relatively unmangled.  I don't know if it's just to keep the spine looking nice or what.

Hg
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-02-2008 19:51
That is what I was thinking. I just was not sure if I got a bad one, but yours is this way as well. :-)

I guess we will see if it helps.

jrw159
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 10-02-2008 20:37
My three holes were drilled all the way through this time.  That's an improvement.  A bigger improvement would be if it turns out that the three holes aren't needed because no one's book ever falls apart.  I'm optimistic.  WEX is better than the previous printer.

Hg
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 10-02-2008 11:45
See, they do give you something for all your hard work! :-)

Cool!! :-)
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-02-2008 13:40
Give??? Yeah they "gave" it to me for $294 LOL.

jrw159 :-)
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 10-02-2008 14:09
Yeah. Nothing's free. I personally think it's a bigtime racket. You gotta have it & they know it.

Funny, you can get all Miller's service & training docs off the dealer's website at no cost to you. No need for books & stuff anymore.

You think they could offer a revision insert when necessary.

It seems to me they would offer the information online, but nobody makes any money when that's the case.

Maybe they do??? I don't know. They got you coming & going for sure though. S.
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 10-02-2008 14:37
SBC,
I think your analogy isn't exactly right.  Miller gives away the documents that may help them to sell more of their money makers.  AWS does the same.  You can download QC1 for free, I suppose they think that could result in more people taking the CWI test.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 10-02-2008 15:17
Actually, miller supplies nearly ALL of their technical manuals as well as service updates, test placement material, basic electronics, welding, engine drive & inverter theory training material free of charge as well.

The primary reason I was moved to make this comment, is that I am preparing to become a Miller Factory Authorized Service Center. For a Miller Factory Authorized Service Technician Certificate, one only has to complete two levels of training at a Factory Training center at a cost of $400 per class (Service Engineering 1&2) at a duration of four days a class. After that, there are two levels of tests to take at a cost of $35 per test. Then, you have Factory Certification. You only have to agree to attend future training of much the same type at very reasonable intervals to keep your certification current. That's it.

No HUGE expense on books & code manuals.

I do understand the vast amount of welding code & other parameters that are involved & see that much more material & training is required to cover it.

The point I am making is that every time a revision or new year code book comes out, it's another $300 or whatever the cost is to purchase it. I would think that information could be supplied online at a reasonable cost, or for say, a membership fee as opposed to having to go spend hundreds of dollars on a new book every time something slightly changes or is revised.

This has been discussed in threads here before regarding the excessive cost for these materials.

I am NOT a CWI, nor will I probably ever be. I'm only saying, it's a lot of dough out of a fella's pocket to purchase this stuff & could probably be provided at a much lower cost online.

I could be wrong altogether, but still feel they really get into your pocket to keep your certification current.
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 10-02-2008 15:33
FYI AWS recently did a survey of D1.1 code book purchasers.  One of the things that came out of the survey was exactly what you're saying, i.e. most users don't like a two year revision cycle.  I believe that the two year cycle came about years back when the code wasn't as mature as it is now, and there were significant additions and some changes from edition to edition (not really the case anymore).  Anyway, AWS is discussing the possibility of going to a much longer revision cycle with the use of addenda (but only if necessary - not on a scheduled basis) in between code editions.
Mankenberg
Parent - - By sbcmweb (****) Date 10-02-2008 16:08
Cool. I appreciate the info. There was a thread awhile back on this & a lot of guys were not happy with the fact they had to shell out big dollars for basically the same book, with a few revisions every couple of years.

That was all I was saying to begin with. Hate to see good, hard working men & women have to spend their money on things that could be provided at a much lesser cost. :-) No one can argue that!! :-)

Frankly, I was absolutely surprised how inexpensive the requirements are to become a Miller service center. I already own 95% of the equipment, just have to complete their training program & tests.

Thanks! Steve.
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 10-02-2008 16:15
Best of luck with that.
Mankenberg
Parent - By sbcmweb (****) Date 10-02-2008 16:47
Thanks! Same to you. :-) S.W.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 10-02-2008 17:03
I think there already working on that, The 2008 edition came out close to 2009, there trying to ease into a 3 year cycle now! :)
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 10-02-2008 20:52
If they go through with that change, we may find addenda less expensive but much harder to track than different versions of the code.  It would be nice if they offered it like a subscription service--buy your D1.1 binder, get all the addenda as replacement pages until the next major edition comes out.  But if you have different projects that bid at different times, and not all the project owners let you "upgrade" to the latest version, that could be a nightmare.  Personally, I'd prefer it if the welding shop upgraded to the latest version mid-project rather than run the risk of mistakes resulting from trying to do things multiple ways (not to mention that theoretically the new way is better), but you'll always get the "that's what it says in the contract" stickler.

I was under the vague impression that the 2-year cycle had to do with sales.  It was a pretty durn mature code whenever they implemented that policy, while D1.5 is relatively immature and has always been on a 5-year cycle.  D1.9 I think is on a 5-year cycle too, and it's brand-new.  Whether it had to do with sales as a cash cow, or sales meaning a lot of people use it so we better keep it up to date, I couldn't say.

Hg
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 10-03-2008 13:04
Good point on the frequency of publication, Tex.  All I know is what the old timers told me. 

I've never had the same problem as you with having to worry about which code edition is current.  I do project work and the code used is always the one specified in the contract, no matter how out of date it may be.  My company's structural steel spec still uses the 94 edition of D1.1.
Mankenberg
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 10-03-2008 17:34
That's my point.  You might have ten projects in your shop.  If one 2008, and the next one specifies 2008 with the 2009 addendum, and the next one specifies 2008 with the *second* 2009 addendum, etc., it can get icky.  It's bad enough with multiple books out there, but with multiple addenda I could see it getting out of hand.  For shops whose clients now put in the contract whatever was current at the time the contract was written or bid, they'd probably be dealing with no more than two versions at a time.  With addenda, it could be wide open.

Just a thought.  Maybe the sky isn't falling.

Hg
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-02-2008 23:42
yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa christmas in october
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 17:07
Here is the pic of it. :-)
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 10-07-2008 17:12
Yup.  I'm 99 44/100% sure that's considered to be a design feature, not a flaw.

Hg
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 17:15
Yeah, I think so. Guess we will see how well it does. :-)

jrw159
Parent - - By Jenn (***) Date 10-07-2008 17:23
It is, it's to keep the outside spine from cracking from all the bending. It's a pretty good way of binding. I'm sure you'll eventually tear it up anyways though - I have faith in you :)
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 17:29
LOL, I will sure give it a good stress testing, and put it through the paces. :-)

jrw159
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 17:44
does the guy sittin across the desk from you know ur goofing off on here or are yall taking to each other on here
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 18:33
He is clueless. LOL He is an engineer or actually a drafstman. :-)
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 19:00
better be nice to me lol
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 19:03
You can't blackmail me. :-)
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 19:21
not yet i cant hehehe
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 19:27
Hold on, I need to call over to shipping and have them cancel that last package. LOL
Parent - - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-07-2008 20:34
lol what kind of operation are you running up there the last package came from a floral store is there sumthin you're not telling us John
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 22:09
Speaking of this, STOP sending me flowers!!! LOL

What do you mean floral store?? Now you have ME wondering whats going on.

jrw159
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-08-2008 01:22
when you sent me the chaps the address they came from was a floral store lol the truth is out john just spill it lol
Parent - By raftergwelding (*****) Date 10-03-2008 22:26
if we all juststick to FC-2004 we'll be fine right? lol
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 10-06-2008 15:08
I finally received our copy last Friday(10/3/08). Looking it over now.....
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 10-07-2008 19:28
Got mine last Friday. 

raftergwelding,

The guy sittin across the desk from me doesn't know I'm naked from the waist down.  Oops.  He just dropped his pencil and I think it rolled under my desk.  Gotta go. 
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 10-07-2008 19:29
LOL
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-07-2008 19:31
UH-OH!!

BTW love that line. Now I know how to save money on car insurance. Screw Gieco, their dam* gecko, and their disgruntled cavemen. LOL
Parent - - By swnorris (****) Date 10-07-2008 20:15
Gieco.  What a rip off! I wanted to buy some insurance for a car, so I shopped for quotes.  I asked Geico for a list of the coverage.  First, I noticed the anti-fire policy, which had a $200 premium.  Second, I noticed the anti-theft policy, which had a $150 premium.  That's $350!!  I checked with another company, and they had the same anti-fire and the same anti-theft policies combined, and it was only a $50 premium.  C'mon Gieco.  Who are you kidding? You're separating the two to make more money, and besides that, nobody would steal a burnt car.
Parent - - By Bob Garner (***) Date 10-14-2008 18:50
We recently bought AWS D1.1, 2006.  With it came eight pages of "Errata", or errors.  How many pages of "Errors" came with the new AWS?  When you do your WPS's, do you issue errata (errors) with them?  Those of you with your own rigs, when you bill your customers, do you issue errata with your bills because you printed your bills all wrong?

Is the AWS Code sold for so low a cost that there is insufficient money to write and publish it correctly, thus requiring pages and pages of "errata"?

How come paperbook authors can publish even limited editions of books that have so few errors in them when AWS can not?

This post will be followed with errata as needed.  Aren't you glad you are not paying for this post?

Bob Garner
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 10-15-2008 22:11
I find tons of grammar and spelling mistakes in paperback books, but then I'm a proofreader at heart.

Hg
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Finally

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