I hate stainless steel stick!!!

Date 10-02-2008 21:07

Wow, I' am shocked! I've always found SS stick to be really easy. Wonder if the degreaser is the problem? You were running DCEP? ...........Or AC?

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-02-2008 21:42 Edited 10-02-2008 21:47

dcep, I say degreaser it was denatured alcohol. Like i said I have run it before with good results no problems, flat and slick, but not today. The positions were horizontal, vertical and overhead fillets

By aevald

Date 10-02-2008 21:54

Hello scrappywelds, here come the questions. When you did the grinding is there any possibility that the wheel could have been contaminated with anything? I don't necessarily mean that you would have used it to grind on something else(such as mild steel or something), but more so, could it have been contaminated with some sort of chemical by coming into contact with it? Such as where it had been stored or something like that. Same sort of question about the rod that you were using, any possibility that the rod was contaminated by moisture or any other sort of chemical contamination? As I believe you have stated, it doesn't sound like any sort of extraordinary circumstances to cause the problems that you had crop up. Just a couple of items for thought. Best regards, Allan

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-03-2008 00:38

grinding wheels new in box. rods freshly open prior to tacking up.

By aevald

Date 10-03-2008 00:55

Hello scrappywelds, two more observations after rereading your original post and the one where you gave the lowdown on the grinding wheels and consumables. Was the welding machine that you were using one that you have used a lot before or was it one that was made available to you for use on this specific job? I am asking this due to consideration for the correct polarity of the machine. Is there even the remote possibility that this machine could have an incorrect polarity set-up? A while back one of the other members of the forum ran into a situation where the machine was not providing the correct polarity and caused a problem. He was able to solve it when he switched the leads even though the controls on it said that the polarity was correct. Second possibility, not as likely, but I'll ask anyway. Do you think that your amperage setting may have been high enough that you could have over-heated the flux on the rod and caused shielding issues that way? You made mention that you were running at an amperage that you had used on another machine, any possibility that this machine may have had enough difference in the settings that you could actually have been running considerably higher. Just a couple of thoughts for more consideration. Best regards, Allan

By ZCat

Date 10-03-2008 01:11

did you get the rods out of a hot oven?

Wet rods is the main source of porosity in stainless stick in my experience.

If I have to use ss stick that has been out of the oven, I ground the rod to the metal till I see the moisture come poofing out, then let cool before using. That always gets rid of the pinholes for me.

sorry, just saw the fresh rod comment...

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-03-2008 01:40

I use that heavy old Hobart all the time. About the last 1 - 1 1/2" was cherried up. It ran good, flat, slick, and rainbow coloration it just had pinholes every now and then. Sometimes in the begining, then the middle, and at the end of the bead. It was all over it was mainly on the over head and vertical. I wasn't long arcing it. I don't know it may have been a bad batch, also who knows how long the rods have been setting in the plants storeroom. They were also ESAB brand rods.

By bozaktwo1 (***)

Date 10-03-2008 11:41

It's also been my experience with covered ss electrodes that you're better off cooking them before use. This also depends greatly on the type of rod; I personally would prefer a 309-15 to weld the 304 with; this critter seems to handle work in weather okay.

Alan, I was wondering why you think it might be a polarity problem? Just curious.

By aevald

Date 10-03-2008 13:58

Hello Curt, the comment about polarity was a bit of a shot in the dark, I don't have any evidence that would support an issue such as his, due to polarity. I guess you could say that based on the information he had supplied up to the point where I included the polarity item, I was running out of options for things that could be causing the porosity. Polarity is one of those things that I don't often notice issues with because I don't typically run on the incorrect one(please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that I am perfect in any way, but I do have plenty of readily available information to determine the correct choice), occasionally I will have students make mistakes and we can see the sorts of issues that can show up, but in this case I can't say that I have personally experienced what would result from an incorrect polarity use with the 308 rod. Maybe I'll have to do some playing and see what happens, if I do I'll try to include some additional information. Best regards, Allan

By darren

Date 10-03-2008 19:09 Edited 10-03-2008 19:12

could it be contamination from whats in the tank? even in a dust form it may cause inclusions.
also shot in the dark here but iron pyrite is or can become magnetic at higher temperatures? could be being attracted to weld through that mechanism.
we need henry or cwi555 or many of the other guys who would be able to comment on magnetism.

By MDG Custom Weld (***)

Date 10-03-2008 13:39

I have seen these problems when 308 or 309 rods were out of an oven for a few months. Moisture in the rod flux is the problem.

By Iron Head 49 (***)

Date 10-03-2008 17:49

This thread has got me to thinking. It has been eons since I've run any amount of SS SMAW. For the life of me I could not remember the correct procedure for storing SS electrodes, so I had to look it up! Pretty much the same as 7018.

"After only 4-hours of exposure to the ambient air the electrodes may need to be reconditioned by redrying at 500 to 600°F for 1-hour. Storing of SS electrodes in a holding oven at 300°F is satisfactory".

By MDG Custom Weld (***)

Date 10-03-2008 21:14

Yep, basically the same as any lo-hy.

By Jim Hughes (***)

Date 10-04-2008 15:42

I was understanding that S.S covered electrodes were not considered Low-HY due to the flux make up being rutile. I think it could be a polarity issue or contamination of material. But it sounds like in the thread that that has been ruled out. Some of the problem could be with what SMAW filler metal is being used. If it's a 15 is does have better moisture resistance but does not run as good out of position. If its a 16 or 17 it runs better but tends to have porosity problems mainly because they are not as resistant to moisture, at least this has been my experiance. So a re-bake is in order or open a new can.

Jim

By dschlotz (***)

Date 10-06-2008 04:22

Try 308L-17. The flux is thin and easy to remove.

Dennis

By 803056

Date 10-01-2010 03:20 Edited 10-02-2010 18:47

Not all electrodes are created equal.

The SMAW electrodes for austenitic stainless have a couple of different coverings, i.e., flux. Only the EXXX-15 are limestone based and need to be stored at relatively high temperature just as any low hydrogen electrode used on carbon steel would be. The -16 and -17 electrodes use a different flux covering and most likely do not need to be stored at the same temperature as the limestone based flux coverings.

That being said, AWS D1.6 makes no distinction between the different flux coverings and require all of them to be stored at the same temperature as any low hydrogen electrode using a limestone based flux covering.

The EXXX-15 SMAW electrodes are best suited for welding in all positions even though the shape of the weld bead has a pronounced convex profile. The limestone flux covering is "fast freeze" and less likely to "sag" or "drip" when compared to the -16 and -17 (similar to -16, but with additional silicon) when welding out of position.

Best regards - Al

By ZCat

Date 10-02-2010 08:30

You probably had water in the rods, were they in a rod oven? I used to ground them out for a few seconds till the puff of moisture came out, then weld with no problems.

By scrappywelds (***)

Date 10-03-2010 22:38

wow this is an old thread. I have recently found out that the rods I used for that repair were very old and have rebaked several times to my understanding. I threw them all away. I now use a fresh can when the storeroom has them in stock. No problems since then. They were ESAB brand by the way if it makes any difference.