True religion is a good thing hogan. It's when men pervert it that it becomes the problem. You can say the same thing about money or power.
Communism is a religion, so is socialism and Marxism. It's called secular humanism. It's the worlds most widely practiced religion.
It is the philosophy that man is the answer to all of lifes problems. Upholds reason, justice and ethics without any consideration of God.
Man ultimately is god. The problem is which man will be god? Hitler? Ahmadinejad? Saddam Hussein?
You will probably respond with the Crusades. As I said, when men are corrupted with power, greed, religion or money nothing good will result from it.
If everyone followed the New Testament teaching of Jesus 100% of the time, there will be no war, theft, murder, rape, adultery, lying, sin.
The problem is we are human and fall short, or choose not to follow Him.
Religion is your life view. It can be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, atheism, agnosticism, or never missing an opportunity to take a shot at religion :) hint
Modern radical Islam cuts peoples heads off and airs it world wide, flies planes into buildings to kill thousands, sends mentally retarded women into buildings and remotely detonates the explosives that they have strapped to them, kill their own people just to create chaos so the infidels (i.e. us) will be blamed, brainwash small children too hate Jews and Christians etc. etc.
Modern day true Christianity in the USA sends food, clothing, medical supplies, doctors, housing, teaching them to grow food, disease prevention, education and yes the Gospel of Jesus Christ too. But not by the sword. Face it, the worst thing you can blame true, uncorrupted modern Christianity for is possibly having to wait until after 12:00 noon to buy your beer on Sunday in some counties :)
yep.....good old religion
Don't forget many "modern" christians have also been accused on sodomizing young boys... Yes, I am Christian but if your citing the "facts" make sure you include the bad with the good.
Incidentally, I'm very curious, how many of my fellow American's have ACTUALLY traveled outside of the USA?
I ask because I feel many, if not most, of my countrymen base their opinions completely on what they've heard on CNN, Fox or other news channels, our worse still, what their neighbors or friends think.
Have you ever stopped to wonder why our news channels only have like 5 minutes of "World" news, with exception of those countries we have conflict with? In many ways, if feels like censorship at the most discreet level... I'd also bet 99.9% of the people reading this message has never even had that thought enter their minds... go to almost any other civilized country and the "news" is almost always at least 1/2 involving world events.
By the way, my next home is New Zealand, where socialized medicine works brilliantly. For those who base their opinions only on what they've heard on TV instead of first hand, I feel very sorry for you.
Don't feel sorry for me Jon.
I have traveled extensively outside the USA and enjoyed the Asian, Spanish, European, British, Scandinavian and Caribbean cultures. And I showed great respect while working in their countries. I got along great in all the countries. Some I liked more than others. Some work better than others.
I didn't say that to brag, but I have been fortunate to have the opportunity to work outside the US on occasions.
I don't speak of socialism as an evil. My other post backs that up.
My concern is if the USA goes full throttle socialism in every aspect of our lives it will be a huge mistake. That will mean the government will have much more control over us as individuals; dems and reps. and all others. Also we will be much more dependant on the government.
I personally don't want that but if you do I don't begrudge you. That is your right and I respect that.
You replied.
"Don't forget many "modern" christians have also been accused on sodomizing you boys... Yes, I am Christian but if your citing the "facts" make sure you include the bad with the good."
You left out a key word that I intentionally put in "true"
I actually said.
Modern day true Christianity in the USA sends food, clothing, medical supplies, doctors, housing, teaching them to grow food, disease prevention, education and yes the Gospel of Jesus Christ too. But not by the sword. Face it, the worst thing you can blame true, uncorrupted modern Christianity for is possibly having to wait until after 12:00 noon to buy your beer on Sunday in some counties
I don't consider sodomy true religion, do you?
With all due respect Jon, it was my post and it wasn't about the good and bad and ugly of Christianity past and present. I think I did state the facts concerning true modern Christianity. If you can refute what I said about church missions from the USA reaching out to less fortunate people across the world with humanitarian needs then I will apologize.
By the very words "true and uncorrupted" that I chose to use gave credence that there is untrue and corrupted so called Christians out there. I distinguished between the two. Come on Jon, as good of an inspector as you are you had to see that :)
Tim, you are correct, my mis-reading and please accept my apology. I guess maybe I'm just a little miffed with all of the politics going back and forth. Again, I acknowledge and appreciate your correctness.
No problem Jon Apology accepted.
You are correct about the intense atmosphere due to the upcoming election. Many of us are passionate about our beliefs and views on politics, religion and welding :)
Sometimes we get somewhat zealous trying to make our point and rub others the wrong way. (Referring to myself)
I am going to tone it down so I don't make any enemies on here. By now most everyone participating in these threads have already decided who they are going to vote for.
No secret that I'm voting for McCain but he was my 4th choice. I don't expect miracles from him if elected.
I am a conservative and a Christian but also a realist and I know that the bad element within them are very real and very damaging.
I appreciate your post here it means a lot to me. You are a stand up guy.
Tim, you're also a stand up guy!
The one thing that has brought us all together, no matter our religious or political beliefs is our love for our trade.
Thanks for accepting my apology! ;-)
Ahhhhhh....... js55, again I moan...... if ya havent been there, you're simply responding to articles... I have been there.... yeah, like all places, socialized and private there are muck-ups but would you like to honestly compare???
jon,
LOL!!!!
I don't believe articles can be so easily dismissed. Unless you want to dispute their claims. I would say that their experience is every bit as valid as yours (and I'm glad yours and your inlaws have had a good experience-I certainly wouldn't dismiss your experience as readily as you have those others). Heck man, those were just what I found after only 2 minutes of googling. But in any case, as far as info is concerned I live right here in the good ole USA and still need to access media sources to let me know whats going on beyond my own front yard. I myself have had no trouble with health care but wouldn't from that extrapolate to a statement that the system as whole is just fine. It certainly has problems. I've read articles to the effect. :) But for me the solution ain't turning it over to the government. Thats the worst thing you can do. There is some middle ground here.
But its more than that. Canada has a similar system. And I have family in Canada. They cross the border for serious and urgent medical care. And the problems listed in those articles are the same problems I've heard from my family, and you hear all over the world from socialized systems. The scenery may change but the problems don't.
Another thing, while I have great respect for New Zealanders, and it is certainly on the top of my list of places to see (you'd let an old ornery conservative stay at your place wouldn't you? I won't tell your inlaws I'm conservative. I promise.) :)
I still have difficulty excepting that they somehow have created the only government beauracracy in the history of the world that works better than a moderately regulated free market.
swsweld,
True religion, an interesting concept. I have to disagree that "Communism is a religion, so is socialism and Marxism". Here is the definition:
re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
I had not had not considered the crusades in my response. You also state that if every one followed the N.T. then no bad things would happen. The same can be said of Captain Kangaroo, Mickey Mouse, or MR. Rogers. Truth is truth it does not matter if who says it. This is one reason there are so many religions. They are ways to live a healthy life. A few examples: Monogamy does not spread SDT's & Do not eat pork if you don't have a refrigerator. Others are more obvious like do not murder.
"If everyone followed the New Testament teaching of Jesus 100% of the time, there will be no war, theft, murder, rape, adultery, lying, sin.
The problem is we are human and fall short, or choose not to follow Him."
The problem with this is it will never happen. I know many religious people and none of them follow the N.T. This has always bothered me. People who are convient or half azzed religious. I have seen many people on this forum who claim to be christians but have shown a lack of conviction. Some talk of looking at porn, or premarital sex, or getting drunk. This using religion when convenient make it even more of a joke to me.
Modern true Christianity (MTC) requires that a woman carry a child to term even if she was raped or carrying it has a high chance of killing her. MTC requires a wife not to leave her husband even if he beats her daily. MTC requires there minions not believe scientifically proven facts.
Ah let us not forget. Christianity has taken its toll on many people too. The Spanish brought not only the Bible, but devastation to the Aztecs, Incas and numerous other smaller tribes. Henry VIII, in his heresy against the Church stole property and wealth from the Church and Catholicism was outlawed in England until 1829.
The Catholic Church also has a criminal past with the many Inquisitions that took place. This mistreatment of people is one of the leading factors of the Reformation. The Church had a great political bearing on Europe since the Roman Empire. The Reformation brought on apostasy from the Church and allowed more churches to begin like Anglican/Episcopals, Methodist and Lutherans.
One thing that history has shown us is that people don't want to be ruled by others. As Americans we can consider that because that is how this nation began. Look at the great empires of history and their declines. Rome, Greece, Alexander the Great, England, Spain. Once the "power" of empire is spread out so far this allows for the internal mechanism at home start to weaken. Resources dwindle and it becomes much harder to control anything at home as well as throughout the empire.
All the Independence Movements that have taken place throughout history was the result of the search for self-rule. Religion, historically, was brought to the masses with hidden agenda. Los Conquistadores brought priests with them to "save" souls for God and take land for Spain. Before we can automatically rule out others ideology we must look at it from their perspective. To the Spanish, as well as Jihadist, American, the IRA, Communists and others, their way is the only way. The Aztecs, Westerners, British/Protestants, Capitalists would beg to differ greatly and vice versa.
Contrary to popular believe or understanding, communism nor socialism are inherently bad or evil. They are Utopian aspirations that never got the chance to work properly. This is because we are still a long way from having the values that would allow us to make it work. On the other hand, with the possible exception of Buddhism, religions are actually instruments in which elites use to control the masses. And for your info, Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
freewelder,
You are partially correct. Communism and socialsim do have their roots in Utopian thought (and Hegelianism, which by the way was also a philosophical contributor to Nazism which WAS inherently evil-no coincidence), and aren't inherently evil. GWF Hegel, Sir Thomas More, Freidrich Engals and Karl Marx were anything but evil men. But the idea that somehow it just hasn't had the chance to work is laughable.
There is an inherent and absolute imperfection not only in humanity, but in the nature of governments as well. This is the naivete of all attempts to force it upon societies. Whenever we achieve whatever values you would argue we must have, we wouldn't need political systems anymore.
And even a cursory reading of the history of Buddhism would prove that its had its power mongering elites as well.
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