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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / SA 106 Boiler Tube Overlay
- - By dasimonds (**) Date 10-25-2001 01:02
1.Does anyone know the effects of overheating SA 106 boiler tubes during the overlay process, with say, 3/32" E7018-A1, as pertaining to tube longevity?
2.I done overlay on occasion with the tubes full of water. While the overheating and distortion are not issues in this case, what is the effect of the excessive cooling rates?
3.What's the optimium method for overlaying tubes, for either min. wall requirements, or corrosion resistance? What's best for the tube, from a metallurgical point of view?
Dale Simonds
Parent - By dasimonds (**) Date 10-28-2001 01:11
I talked to the plant's chief metallurgist about the overlay. He said their analysis showed copper on the ID of the tubes and his biggest concern was sucking the copper into the weld, where it would set at the grain boundaries(intergranular corrosion perhaps?).
I then asked him the effect of the high(about 4 seconds to get back to ambient, but the slag would still burn you!) cooling rates(once they finally got water into the boiler, preparing for a hydro) on the weld and tubes. He said it would make it somewhat harder, but wasn't really a concern in this case.
I wish I had the chance to talk to him in a non-shutdown situation, where he would have more time to elaborate on things.
The overlay covers the entire OD of the tubes, 422.5" in length. It turned out that it took 20 individual stringer beads to cover the tubes. All totaled up, it was 1 stringer bead 8450 inches long, or 704'! Did I mention it was ALL overhead?
Dale Simonds
Parent - - By - Date 10-28-2001 19:37
Generally speaking, for boiler tubes with a reasonable wall thickness, the typical failure mechanism for boiler tubes is creep. We therefore need to considder what would reduce the creep properties.

As creep is essentially a grain boundary effect, grain growth is not a problem. With the over-heating of tubes, grain growth would be a typical effect.

I therefore do not think that "overheating" is really a problem. More important would be other factors such as the quality of the welds themselves and distortion.

Regards

Niekie Jooste
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 10-28-2001 19:55
I might add that increased grain size decreases potential for creep to occur, so that would be good in this case.

Dale, what do you mean by "overheating"? My experience has been that SA-106 is very tolerant of the heat input from SMAW. Very high heat input may reduce notch toughness properties, but that should not be an issue in a boiler tube.

Marty
Parent - - By dasimonds (**) Date 10-29-2001 00:56
By the term "overheating", I meant getting the tubes too hot. From a distortion point of view, the more heat put into a section of wall tubes, the greater the distortion to the tube section. From my experience, the tubes tend to expand outwards with excessive heat input from cladding, be it from either cladding for corrosion resistance, or for cladding to increase minimiun wall thickness. During the cladding on this job, for min. wall thickness, I carried a variety of temp sticks, ranging from 125 degrees F to 500 degrees F. The tubes never got above 250 degres F in the center section(an area roughly 28" X 48", all totaled more than 1000sq.in., and did I mention it's a last-minute finding in a shutdown situation, and the initial response was to put 4 welders on the cladding?), well below the interpass temperature for carbon steel. But if you were to look along a side profile view of the roof tubes, you will still see a distortion, as my partner didn't feel the same way as I did about giving the plant a nice job, it being overhead and all?!?!
Niekie2,
You speak of the quality of the welds. I tend to agree. How much porosity from bad starts will result in a failure? I attempted to show my partner how little time needed to be spent grinding, if one were to identify the defective areas, and once located, just go ahead and grind them out. This was to no avail. You can possibly imagine how much I wanted to do him some bodily harm when I became aware of the arc strikes and resultant porosity he left on my overlay!
And lets speak about bead profiles for a moment. What would you call a good multipass bead profile in a case such as this( this case being such that the cladding was performed longitudinally)? How do deep interbead valleys perform in this situation? My guess is not very well. I would think it reduces the overall thickness of the cladding, and potentially creates a notch stress riser( is this correct?).
What did you mean by "overheating"? And are you talking of the same distortion as I am?
I personally thought that if the tube was too hot to put your bare hand on, then it was too hot to weld on. I might add that the minimum wall thickness determined by UT examination was .080", so "burn through" was also an issue,(and thank GOD it didn't turn into an issue!) and high travel speeds were a necessity. I've used this philosophy on several occasions, and it has repeatedly proven itself to me as an excellent distortion control technique. If I were to clad a panel with no mind for distortion issues, you might not even see some of the tubes from a side view, for with the heat came the need to grow. But where to grow? I wonder if we aren't inadvertently changing some of the flow dynamics of the gas flow by the distortion of the tubes, be they wall or roof tubes, and thereby changing the wear patterns.
And by the nature of this distortion, I was wondering if this had an effect on expected tube lifetime.
Also, I was wondering if someone out there had a bad experience with an overlay job, that I could use as an example the next time someone told me " it doesn't matter".
After my all too brief discussions with the plant's chief metallurgist, I must say I feel I'm on the right track. If I need correction on some point, by all means gentlemen, please do so.
Dale Simonds
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 10-29-2001 03:28
From the standpoint of damage to the microstructure, it does not sound like the tubes are being overheated. The distortion in the panels is due to shrinkage stresses in the overlay exceeding the maximum bending stress on the tubes, and would be an effect similar to cold bending the tubes. I don't believe this will affect tube longevity, but there is much that I don't know about the service conditions and design of this boiler.

On your question of welding on water-filled panels, this is a common practice in shops to minimize distortion on prefab panels. If the carbon content were high enough, there could be some martensite formation. But carbon content in SA106 is fairly low and even if it were present some martensite may have little effect on tube life.

Marty
Parent - By dasimonds (**) Date 10-29-2001 11:25
Both of you gentlemen mentioned distortion and overheating. Does overheating only become an issue if the interpass temperature is exceeded?
I wonder how much stress is being put into the panel when you can visibly see a distortion in the straightness of the tubes.
Does this visible distortion increase the likelihood of SAC(stress assisted cracking)?
Is it not desireable for the tubes to be as straight as possible upon completion of the overlay? It isn't a very difficult task if the tubes contain water, but how would you gentlemen approach the overlay with the tubes empty?
Maybe I'm just being a "nervous nellie", as it were. I often wonder if this is the case.
I would also be interested in your opinions as to bead profiles and interbead crevices, and are they potential notch stress risers? I mean, will they not have the same negative effect as undercut, and be a focal point for stress?
What do you gentlemen think?
Dale Simonds
Parent - - By - Date 10-29-2001 18:43
When I used the term "overheating", it was merely because that was the term that you used. In the case of a plain carbon steel such as A106, this term is not really very descriptive when used in isolation. It only really makes sense when used in the context of the degradation of properties.

To re-phrase my statement: The higher your tube interpass temperature, the greater the grain growth and the wider your HAZ. This reduces the material tensile strength and impact strength. It improves your creep properties.

Regarding the bead profile: Yes, if you have any sort of a "notch" created by high standing beads with "valleys" between them, it can reduce the following properties:

1)Low temperature impact resistance (This becomes a problem during pressure testing of the boiler.)
2)Fatigue resistance. (Possibly a problem from a thermal fatigue point of view.)
3)Fouling resistance. Often external corrosion of boiler tubes occur when ash builds up on the outside of the tubes.

In addition, if you have large protrusion on the tube, you can expect increased errosion effects in its wake.

Your test of being able to place your hand on the tube before commencing with your next run would mean that the interpass temperature was very low. (Approx. 50 - 60°C) Generally a temperature below 300°C for plain carbon steels should ensure that the material does not experience too much grain growth.

Regarding the distortion issue: As long as the component can still perform its function, this is not such a big problem. The issue is "Can the distorted component still perform its function as required?"

Interestingly, if you want to reduce distortion, it is generally recommended to apply a pre-heat. This means that a higher interpass temperature, especially if it is experienced throughout the panel, would reduce the distortion.

Hope this helps

Niekie Jooste
Parent - - By dasimonds (**) Date 10-30-2001 01:17
Niekie2,
If I had to define my useage of the term "overheating", I'd say I meant driving a lot of heat into the relatively small section of tubes, usually with the interpass temperatures being my main concern. With the thicknesses involved, .080", and using an SMAW process, I thought it called for some caution. It's an interesting fact about grain growth and helping with the creep issues.

I don't believe we did any microstructural damage to the basemetal from excessive temperatures.

I wasn't aware of the bead profile information you provided. Interesting.

This plant has 2 of these Co-Gen units. I think they burn coal. We finished an inspection and repair on the other unit 2 weeks ago. We had to overlay a section of roof tubes on that unit as well, in the same general location. In both cases the plant has decided to metalspray an N06625 material on to the tubes. I'm not sure if it's for the errosion issues or not, as we were overlaying for minimium wall requirements, and there was no errosion visible on the OD of the tubes. Does anyone know what's happening in this case?

I don't believe the visible distortion will adversely affect the operational life of the boiler. "Can the distorted component still perform its function as required?" I'd have to say yes.

But it is still a distortion, very visibly disconcerting to myself, as I feel more could have been done to minimize the effects, especially considering how effective and easy it is to jump around.

I had considered preheating. That was as far as I got with it.

I should add that these Co-Gen shutdowns are not usually approached
with buckets full of enthusiasm. I think they enjoy a status somewhere around "Trash Burner".

Can you possibly recommend some titles that deal with the metallurgical problems associated with welding?

Thanks for the information.
Dale Simonds

Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 10-30-2001 15:50
Here's a web site with some good articles that deal with the metallurgical problems associated with welding in boilers:

http://www.nationalboard.org/Classics/des-fab.html

As far as good texts, try:

"Weldability of Steels" by R. D. Stout
"Metallurgical Failures in Fossil Fired Boilers" by David N. French
"Welding Metallurgy" by George Linnert

Marty
Parent - By dasimonds (**) Date 10-31-2001 00:18
Thanks Marty
Dale Simonds
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / SA 106 Boiler Tube Overlay

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