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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / AISC Versus an ICC-ES approved shop
- - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 11-11-2008 02:16 Edited 11-11-2008 03:34
I am looking for information concerning shop certifications. We have a contract specifying periodic inspection for an ICC-ES approved shop. The fab shop has an AISC certification. We have sent it to the SE for review and continue to perform full time inspection as per CBC 1701. Anyways, I am interested in any input from those of you familiar in such shop certifications. This is having a huge inpact on our CWI's as the shop is in the midwest and we are located in California.
As I reconsider, i haven't seen the contract docs. I wonder if I was misinformed and maybe they are talking about an ICC-IAS accredidation. Any Thoughts?
Thanks.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 11-11-2008 14:17
rfieldbuilds,
I have not been involved in ICC work for a few years. But I seem to remember that the municipality governing where the fabricated item is being located can certify a shop as authorized. Best to look into the job specs & the ICC as adopted by the local municipality. Hopefully this will point you in the direction your looking for.
Parent - - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 11-13-2008 01:40 Edited 11-13-2008 03:14
Well Folks,
Yes Hogan, the specs call for ICC-ES approval of a shop to circumvent full time welding inspection. According to IBC 2006 section 1704.2.2, special inspection is not required if the shop is "approved and registered". Ultimately, this decision is up to the building official.  In the case I am involved with, the jurisdiction is with DSA, a CA Dept of General Services branch. Anyways, to make a long one short, in this area we don't deal with many '"approved and registered" shops.

I have reasearched and found out the following for those interested:There are three (that I know of) possible fab shop accreditations in regards to structural steel. #1 and probably the most detailed cert to get is through AISC. #2 ICC-ES is actually a subsidiary of ICBO. They have a similar set of requirements with perhaps a little less require documentation of procedures.#3 is through ICC and their new (tounge is in cheek as opposed to lips on the derriere) accredidation dept ICC-IAS. This will over time probably be the certification to get in the countries recognizing ICC/IBC. The requirements differ slightly for each accreddidation as I am sure the costs do (I haven't looked into that yet).

A CWI acquaintence in Las Vegas says he rarely does shop inspections as most shops are certified and therefore require less QA over their QC dept. In California where I work, I do A fair amount of shop and field inspections. It seems the fruit is ripe in this area to help these shops with compliance and to become accredited. This would be an interesting line of work for a CWI with some time on their hands.
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-13-2008 14:02
rfieldbuilds

ICC-ES certified shops involved with DSA projects will still require QA inspection.  DSA has the most stringent inspection requirements in the structural industry.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 11-13-2008 14:25
rfieldbuilds,
These requirements came out at least ten years ago. I know a few inspectors that have become consultants for this. one more thing to look into is the ICC as adopted by the municipality. Some will have a requirement that a building official will need to certify a shop as authorized.
Parent - - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 11-13-2008 14:38
Thanks Joe and Hogan. Yes, DSA is quite black and white on intrepretations. Their stds for paperwork are much more demanding than than a typical commercial job. In general, the DSA jobs I have worked on are much more demanding for the welder, fab shop and inspector. Does anyone know, how do DSA's requirements compare to say, Los Angeles, Vegas or NYC?
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 11-13-2008 15:02
rfieldbuilds,
Jo can probably answer the comparison better than me. But typically the more stringent requirements are come into play due to the seismic zone your dealing with.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-13-2008 15:42
Top all concerned.

I hope this goes through.

http://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/dsa/pubs/IR_17-3_rev01-02-08.pdf

This will explain part of the requirements.

Joe Kane
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 11-13-2008 15:49
Thanks Jo. Nice to see an age requirement for inspectors.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-13-2008 15:55
To all concerned;
California Department of General Services . Division of the State Architect . Interpretation of Regulations Document
DSA (SS) IR 17-3 Structural Welding Inspection
(rev 01-02-08) Page 1 of 3
Structural Welding
Inspection
Reference: California Building Standards Administrative Code, Revised 01-02-08
Title 24, Part 1, Section 4-333(c) Issued 05-15-07 as CR 17-3
2001 California Building Code (CBC),
Title 24, Part 2, Sections 1701A.5.5 and 2231A
Discipline: Structural
This Interpretation of Regulations (IR) is intended for use by the Division of the State Architect (DSA) staff, and as a resource for design professionals, to promote more uniform statewide criteria for plan review and construction inspection of projects within the jurisdiction of DSA, which include State of California public elementary and secondary schools (grades K-12), community colleges, and state-owned or state-leased essential services buildings. This IR indicates an acceptable method for achieving compliance with applicable codes and regulations, although other methods proposed by design professionals may be considered by DSA.
This IR is reviewed on a regular basis and is subject to revision at any time. Please check the DSA web site for currently effective IR's. Only IR's listed in the document at http://www.dsa.dgs.ca.gov/Pubs/default.htm (click on "DSA Interpretation of Regulations Manual") at the time of plan submittal to DSA are considered applicable.
This IR applies also to testing laboratories, technicians and special inspectors working on projects under DSA jurisdiction.
1. Purpose: The purpose of this Interpretation of Regulations (IR) is to clarify the minimum requirements and responsibilities for personnel conducting structural welding inspections for projects submitted to DSA under the 2001 California Building Code (CBC). It is applicable to shop and field welding activities.
2. Background: The 2001 California Building Code requires constant special inspection of all welding operations except that continuous inspection is permitted for certain weld types in accordance with the 2001 CBC, Section 1701A.5.
IR 17-3
2.1 For welding, "constant" means constant presence of the welding inspector at point of welding, and that he or she inspects each pass as it is being done prior to subsequent weld layers. Constant inspection is applicable to the following types of welds: Multi-pass fillet welds, partial penetration groove welds and complete penetration groove welds.
2.2 For welding, "continuous" means the welding inspector must be in the vicinity of the welding during all phases, and shall inspect in a timely manner, before subsequent operations are performed. Continuous inspection is applicable to single pass fillet welds, deck welding, shear studs, hand rails, etc.
3. Qualifications: Welding inspectors shall meet the following minimum requirements:
3.1 Have valid certification as an American Welding Society (AWS) certified welding inspector (CWI) or senior certified welding inspector (SCWI) as defined in the provisions of ANSI/AWS QC1,
3.2 Have taken the AWS Open Code Book examination on ANSI/AWS D1.1, Structural Welding Code - Steel.
3.3 Be not less than 25 years of age, and
3.4 Must possess knowledge of the administrative requirements of Title 24 Part 1 and special welding inspection requirements of Title 24, Part 2.
DSA (SS) IR 17-3 Structural Welding Inspection
(rev 01-02-08) Page 2 of 3
4. Approval: A welding inspector shall be approved for each specific project prior to performing any work in accordance with Section 4-333 (c) of Title 24, Part 1 and 2231A of the 2001 CBC. To be approved for a project the welding inspector may be required to demonstrate the following to the satisfaction of DSA:
4.1 The minimum requirements defined in Section 3 above,
4.2 At least 3 years experience in construction or inspection work on projects similar to the project for which the inspector is applying, and
4.3 That adequate time and attention will be provided to the project.
5. Inspection Duties:
5.1 Review and understand the applicable portions of the DSA approved plans, specifications, field changes and other DSA approved documents. Approved shop drawings, erection drawings, referenced codes and standards must also be reviewed and understood. (Note that shop/erection drawings are NOT DSA approved doc-uments and shall NOT be used as a basis for determining compliance).
5.2
Verify that materials to be welded are the specified grade, type, size, thickness, etc. required by DSA approved documents for the project.
5.3
Review manufacturer's material test reports. Sample any unidentifiable material for testing. All testing of materials must be performed by a laboratory accepted in the DSA Laboratory Evaluation and Acceptance (LEA) Program.
5.4
Verify that all applicable welder, welding operator, and tack welder qualifications are available, current, and accurate.
5.5
Verify that a written Welding Procedure Specification (WPS) is available on site for each type of weld, that the WPS is in compliance with all requirements, and that the WPS has been approved as required by the construction documents.
5.6
Witness all Procedure Qualification Tests required for non-prequalified welds and verify that Procedure Qualification Records (PQR) are compliant with all applicable requirements.
5.7
Verify that all welding consumables comply with the DSA approved documents and the approved WPS. Verify that all electrodes are properly stored.
5.8
Verify that the welding current and voltage are within the WPS parameters by using a calibrated hand-held volt/amp meter. Readings should be taken as near the arc as possible.
5.9
Verify that joint preparation, assembly practice, preheat temperatures, interpass temperatures, welding techniques, welder performance, and post-weld heat treatment meet the requirements of the DSA approved documents, WPS, and applicable AWS code.
5.1
0 Conduct visual inspection of the work: Verify size, length, and location of all welds. Verify that all welds conform to the requirements of the AWS code and the DSA
DSA (SS) IR 17-3 Structural Welding Inspection
(01-02-08) Page 3 of 3
approved documents. Weld size and contour shall be measured with suitable gauges.
5.11
Mark completed welds, parts, and joints that have been inspected and accepted with a distinguishing mark, tag or dye stamp. The mark shall include: Testing laboratory initials (if applicable), inspector's initials, inspection date and status.
5.12
Schedule or notify those responsible for nondestructive testing (NDT) technicians in a timely manner, after visual inspection and acceptance is complete, and the assembly has cooled. See DSA IR 17-2 for further information regarding NDT.
6.0 R
eporting:
6.1 Provide daily inspection reports that clearly describe the inspection process. The report shall document all inspection duties listed in Section 5. above. Reports shall include a systematic list of accepted and rejected welds, parts, or joints. Reports shall clearly document weld locations by grid line, elevation or other acceptable means.
6.2 Reports shall reference the details on the DSA approved documents used as a basis for inspection.
6.3 Inspection reports must state that the work was inspected in accordance with, and met the requirements of, the DSA approved documents. Reports must be submitted as required by Title 24, Part 1, Section 4-333 (c). A sample special inspection form (DSA 250) is available on the DSA web site.
6.4 Reports shall be sent to the school district and copied to the architect, structural engineer, project inspector and DSA within 14 days of the date of the inspection. For field welding, reports shall also be presented to the project inspector on a daily basis. Reports indicating non-compliance shall be submitted immediately.
6.5 At the conclusion of the work, the welding inspector is required to sign and submit a verified report. The verified report shall be made on form (DSA 292) available on the DSA website.
7.0 Failure to Perform: Failure to inspect in a professional and competent manner, report defective work, file all required reports in a truthful and timely manner, or fulfill any other duties defined by the code may have serious consequences for the welding inspector. These consequences include but are not limited to withdrawal of DSA approval, and/or denial of any future DSA approval to work as a welding inspector on projects under DSA jurisdiction.
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-13-2008 20:14
"Hold the phone a minute"

I spoke to Eric France from DSA this afternoon (East Coast time).  There has been a change.  He is going to read this string and get back to me tomorrow.  California and (subsequently DSA,) adopted the CBC which is based on the 2006 IBC, and has California modifications.  So, it seems that if your contract was let prior to the recognition of the new code by DSA, you must adhere to the rules I sent in the above post.   If your contract is let after the new code was recognized by DSA, you are under the more lenient rules.

Eric promised to read this entire string, and call me back tomorrow.   .
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / AISC Versus an ICC-ES approved shop

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