thanks for the replies guys, this is my fulltime gig now. Got tired of the other guy/employee thing....heck of a time to decide that. Actually was laid off so not my decision.
Yeah, I saw that I was half price and when I figured it at my $55/hour it was still lowballed in comparison but I know that extra money would have made me feel better at the end of the day, not greedy feel better but better about the compensation= to the work involved, this make sense? I've planned on the next job, I have two this same guy is talking to me about, one not so big and one big one. I'll just have to stick to my guns at the 55, better if I just keep my mouth shut though with my brother in law and just let them know what the total bid is and not discuss what I'm charging hourly, cause then I have to try and explain/justify it compared to large companies that have employees and big fancy buildings and all those employees. It's not my problem they have to have large buildings and overhead, my office/shop travels and my shop at home is well, at home. Less overhead but performing the same services.
Again, thanks for the replies.
One word about hired help. It's absolutely NONE of their business what you are getting on the job. If you are the one putting up the machinery, equipment, liability, etc & all he is doing is showing up......You owe him no further explanation.
Tell him he can make your insurance payments for awhile, or pay for the next major repair on your welding machine if you encounter a problem. It's easy for an armchair quarterback to be calling plays from the comfort of home, with a brewski in his hand. Working with relatives can be tricky sometimes. Just don't let anyone screw you around on your time & labor. You should be getting paid for what you know how to do, not only what your two hands can put together.
There's nothing greedy about having a competitive rate, regardless of your equipment fleet size or overhead, as long as you are on par with quality work the big companies with experienced hands charge. Being reasonable DOES NOT mean you have to be a doormat for second rate, cheap shot hacks looking for a quick fix. Those kind of customers are the ones you want to totally avoid. They are always trouble & usually are the ones to complain the most. Keep your rate high enough to keep the riff raff away & discourage would be cheapskate customers from even contacting you. A lot can be said for doing a quality job & making a good wage for it.
Like I said before, the cheapskates will never have any respect for you or your knowledge. They will simply exploit it & abandon you for the next cheapest hack that comes along offering their services for less than you.
Again, best of luck to you! Steve.
You got that right Steve,If you want a good welder you have to pay for him.The knowledge you get through the years comes at a price,and you have to charge for it.Sometimes I think I should raise my rates from what I hear about what other people charge,but I always get complaints from the guys who hire me saying it's more thatn what they make,and they're in management,I usually say "then why don't you weld it".
Good hearing from you Jim! Been awhile!
I have found, even from my limited experience that those kind of customers aren't worth having around. Sure, I think we've all been there at least once, but you should learn from it & be more aware the next time you go out & bid a job. Eat a few jobs & walk away feeling like a slapped around crack whore, you get wise to the fact you are charging too little & either fix it or be constantly in the hole because of it.
Some people have so little respect for themselves & their work, that it just doesn't matter. They do not "pay themselves" first. They figure labor is really not the biggest piece of it when in fact, it IS!!!!!!
I have grown to believe you are paid for what you know, not what you necessarily do. The overhead you have & out of pocket costs are a big factor too. Any time "Non Value Added" costs are introduced to a job, that also has to be taken into consideration. Starting your rig truck up costs money, driving to the site & back does as well. All the little logistics of a job can bleed your profit away real fast & it needs to be recognized & compensated for.
I'm not wealthy doing what I do for a living. But at the same time, I'm not cutting myself short doing crap jobs for nothing just to say I'm working.
FWIW S.W.
I hear you brother,I know you and I have talked about this in the past over the phone and how frustrating it is.I only work for myself part time,as I have a full-time gig in aviation.Maybe one day I'll go for it like you.Good to hear from you.
Take it easy,Ringo
I look at it two different ways. One, you're in a business and want to have a decent profit margin. Making a profit is the number one reason for doing business, after all. Two, you have to consider the beating you're giving yourself on the job; fumes, dusts, arc flashes, burns, aches and pains from crawling around in unnatural positions all day...it all takes a toll on you through the years, and you can't do it forever.
So you can charge $55/hr to work, but what good is that if it's costing you $53/hr to be there; that's everything from health insurance to gas for the rig. If it were me, I would figure my daily expenses, divide it by an 8 hour day, then cap a 10-15% profit on top. There's your hourly rate.
Cumminsguy,
Your rate is a bit low, but in the ball park. I have worked for $55 and supplied on small jobs where consumables were not really enough to account for. I have also worked for $75 on big jobs were everything was supplied. I like to average $65 for most misc work like the rails and minor bucket repairs and such. If it's a total rebuild where your going to put in 100 pounds of rod and 2 tanks of gas, then being on the higher side is ok in my book.
The reason most large companies can get away with the $100 plus is they don't really care if they land those misc jobs, and their overhead is higher. In the one man show those misc jobs pay the bills and you have to price it to make a profit that will cover your overhead. Like Steve has said, Michigan is hard up and we have a lot of 2 bit hacks that will roll with $35, but they are usually getting repoed within a year and we have to fix their crap.
One thing about the B-I-L, when was the last time a carpenter or master electrician showed up with every piece of material needed for the job at hand?? Usually everything is sitting there for them and all they have to use is their tools, and most of those tools do not run on fuel that they paid for. As the welder, you have to show up with everything needed top to bottom.
I agree with Steve on several points,
1) This has been beat to death
2) It is always going to be a delicate, controversial, and complicated Q&A.
3) There are so many things to consider: In AZ for the areas you (Cummingsguy) mention I have to be a licensed contractor (renews often $$), carry Liab Insur (1 mil or more-$$), Workers Comp ($$), Auto Insur for job site work ($$), pay Unemploy ($$), SS ($$), Shop Rent ($$), Overhead (power, water, sewer, phones, computers, welders, hand tools, consumables, fax machine, trucks, signage, saw, ironworker, air comp, etc, etc. $$$$$ !! Certifications with updates, WPS, Mill certs records, etc. ($$), Seminars to follow trends and code changes ($$), Code books ($$$), Fuel ($$), Health Insurance ($$). Need we go on? Did we make our point ?? Don't forget any of it or you will not have any money to renew something down the road.
4) Now I can start paying myself- after I make sure the steel and employees are paid. All bills get paid BEFORE I do.
5) Bottom line: In our area of AZ most of us that have been around awhile and intend to stay around are running $75-100/hr. My rate is at a base of $85 but is variable depending upon many circumstances. That generally includes standard consumables (grinding wheels, rod, wire, travel time is same hourly rate with no mileage as long as it is in our local area, gases for torch).
I don't drop my rate much for any reason. If they want NO problems with inspections, quality, service, etc. then they will pay for it.
Things have slowed down but they are still keeping us busier than when we bought this shop 12 yrs ago. Plenty of cutthroats out there trying to do the work real cheap and take away our business. They won't last long, but will they outlast us?
Anyway, there's my tiny two pennies worth.
Have a Great Day, Brent