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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / WPS and welding map endorsement
- - By Boon (**) Date 11-24-2008 01:19
For manufacturer of fabricated products using welding processes, WPS/PQR is usually available for client's review. Some clients would also request for welding map.
My question is should the welding map be endorsed by a third party? One client asked why our WPS and welding map for a product is not endorsed by third party.
WPS is supported by PQR (witnessed and tested by third party) and I understand WPS is written and provided by manufacturer for making production welds to Code requirements (QW-200.1).
Is endorsement of WPS simply a client's requirement?

Regards
Boon
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-24-2008 04:27
I've never heard of a third party being required to review or approve a weld map. Then again, if a company has a reputation/history of not having sufficient technical savvy, the customer may be using the third party as a means of ensuring the fabricator has access to someone that does have the where-with-all to address the technical aspects of welding.

Al
Parent - - By NEQA (**) Date 11-24-2008 16:56
Not sure what is meant by a weld map "endorsement". I know of no such code requirement, and can only imagine who would be qualified to give such an "endorsement", both technically and legally. Who would pay for it?  As a large user, we have never required an  "endorsement" of anything. If the vendor meets the code, he has met contract requirements. A review, and approval,  of the vendor's WPS prior to the start of work is a requirement. 
Parent - - By Boon (**) Date 11-25-2008 12:01
I was having the same opinion as to who could be more qualified than the manufacturer to "endorse" the weld map.
The client (a large international company) should review and approve the vendor's WPS and weld map if necessary instead of asking why the weld map was not "endorse" by third party.
Parent - - By paul 3 (*) Date 11-29-2008 16:56
Don't mean to break the thread but what is a weld map?
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-29-2008 18:25
Paul 3

Good question.  Its about time someone asked it. I wasn't going to respond to this string, until you asked the obvious question.  Here is what I think a weld map is.....

In my experience a weld map was a record of all the welding and material information on each joint in a structure.  It included a line drawing of the piping, elevation and grid map of each joint, WPS used, welders involved, who did the root, who did the fill and cap passes, Filler Metal used, Heat Numbers of the weld metal and the base metal, Etc.  On the PV, it showed the preheat record, the limits of where each welded started and stopped, the radiograph numbers, Inspection and NDT notes per segment and joint.  There was also a record of the pertinent information on the bolts and installation information.

I heard a story of a large nuke power plant manufacturer / erector offering the weld map to a nuke power plant owner at the end of a job, (for two million dollars) and the utility owner declining to buy it.  Ten years later when the in-service problems and repairs began to mount up, the utility regretted this decision.

It was speculated, that if they had the weld map, they would not have had to re-radiograph all the welds of a given type when a "welder type" defect was discovered during in-service checks.  They speculated that they would have only been required to check the welds performed by that welder.  They also had corrosion type problems as the plant aged.  The engineer speculated that knowing if one pipe manufacturer was involved could have limited the scope of testing.  In-service after the plant was hot, testing is very complicated and expensive.

I have kept this type of information to a lesser degree on an urban cross country gas pipeline (TETCO Facility Main extension in Brooklyn NY), as part of my daily inspection report.

I have also kept this type of information to some degree on bridge girders and all Fracture Critical Bridge member fabrication, including pass by pass detail, as part of a daily report and member "follower form".  I routinely maintained a Material Record for each member, including the MTR Numbers and heat numbers for each member and component of the members, (I.E. Stiffeners, and Connection Plates), (direction of rolling) and heat numbers, and serial numbers for the electrode and the bags of flux.  You can almost touch any part in the structure and trace all the way back to the shovel of ore the metal came from.

On all these "Weld Maps", I have routinely signed them off or initialed my portion of the forms as appropriate, when I was the inspector of record.  This is all routine QA inspection reporting to me. 

Compilation of a comprehensive, easy to review, compartmented map, at the end of construction would require pre-planning, and indexing for easy reference.  That is where the extra money would come into play, because on a large job this activity involves extra time and manpower.

While I am still not sure what was originally meant by the words "weld Map", this is what I think it means.

Joe Kane

Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 11-30-2008 01:54
In my limited experience with weld maps, they were not nearly as comprehensive as that described by my friend Joe. The weld maps I am familiar with simple assign a join number to each weld joint and the signature of the welder or welders responsible for making each weld. The inspector also cosigned the weld maps to indicate the weld was inspected and either accepted or rejected. The weld map was used instead of having the welders impression stamp the actual welded joint. It provided the manufacturer and the "owner" with a record of who was responsible for what.

I can see where a comprehensive record, such as that described by Joe, would be a valuable "tool" for an owner of a complex facility such as a chemical plant or a nuke power station mentioned by Joe.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By JTMcC (***) Date 11-30-2008 20:54
I transmission lines it will usually contain most of what J.P. Kane mentioned, Weld number, welder stencil #'s for every pass, who signed off the Visual Inspection, x-ray number, pipe wall thickness', heat numbers, mile marker number (footage number, whatever they call it), info for every fitting or tube turn, valves, pups, ect.
After the pipe is lowered in, survey will usually GPS every weld, documenting the coordinates and elevation of every weld.

JTMcC.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / WPS and welding map endorsement

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